Anyone With Major Judicial/Service Department Experience?

by A question 27 Replies latest jw friends

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  dannyboy

  (Is it only me? I find these "questions" a bit odd......)

  Ok, taking them on face value, Regarding what it takes on the "Society's" end to send in troubleshooters:

  The *key* thing is what the local congregation(s) members are thinking about a particular issue.....got to keep the folks "happy". If the "Society" (your words) think the rank and file's assumed "happiness" is being negatively impacted by some local issue, they will look into it, no matter what it is, big or little. Gotta keep the troops "happy" and "contented". Congregation members have no idea how much crap they can stir up with a whining letter, even if the local BOE has already dealt with it and the letter writer knows that. Remember the "Society" doesn't give a "rat's ass" about individuals or about individual's time answering bogus stuff.

  In most cases, they first would write the local BOE, possibly CC'ng the CO, asking for an explanation of what they were hearing back east: example: "....We attach a letter from (name of complaining person), wherein she/he claims that an elder in your area is (fill in the sin or accusation here). Is this true? Has he been counseled about this? Please explain how he can be 'free from accusation?' We look forward to your early answer to our questions".

  This is not the only way I've seen things like this approached, I've also seen a CO/DO duo get into "investigatory" mode.

  On a related thought, my experiences are a bit dated now, but one needs to remember that the CO has a lot of "power" and a big say in what goes down. He has great flexibility, for example: One CO blew through the Circuit and just flat "stirred things up", first time around.....many elders and MS's got deleted, generating a lot of "buzz" about him being a hard case, etc. At the Circuit level, he re-arranged the Circuit assignments of most of us, arbitrarily, like musical chairs. Upon the occasion of him rotating out as CO, he confided in me that he "always stirred things up" upon serving a new circuit, as it made things easier for him...made the BOE's more likely to "jump" when he barked.

  This thread has brought back to mind many (wasted) hours spent writing letters regarding complaints made about individual elder(s).

  --Dannyboy
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  DavinciCodeBreaker

  I know of at least two congregations where the entire body was removed; both was due to in-fighting and divisions on the body. On the latter case the entire body was deleted and the congregation was also dissolved and the rank and file sent to neighboring congregations. The CO and DO were directly involved in what many so called innocent members of the body considered extreme and heavy handed. The irony is that the original two sh-t disturbers that caused all the problems in the first place have been reappointed in the same hall and one of the elders in question has been deleted THREE TIMES! Oh for sure it is Jehovah's Holy Spirit that continues to appoint these repressive power hungry men-what a beacon of spiritual leadership!!!
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  A question

  Thanks for all the responses to everyone who has done so.

  Is there anyone here that actually participated in a troubleshooting 'mission'?
• 

  russell1879

  I have experience as an elder and know very well the current policies on deletions.

  Yes I have heard of how whole body of elders can be deleted. Back in 1995 in Brooklyn Williamsburg Spanish Cong. The P.O. had committed adultery and confessed to his wife. The body however did not take any action (PO confessed to them too!). The elders told the wife to leave it in Jah's hands and that it's not her position to run ahead of God's theocratic organization. She decided to go directly to Bethel & assigned a special comitte of elders from Bethel and sure enough the body knew and all of them were deleted (5 of them) & PO df'd. The society immediatley sent Bethelites (up to 18 at one time) including heavies from the service dept.

  Another case is what a DO said on a circuit assembly (Ted Amendt Spanish DO) about a body of elders in florida not following the instructions of the society about the accounting paperwork, audit etc. After some 3 visits of not following the counsel & instructions the whole body was deleted. I guess this happened when the D.O. was C.O. as the former do not visit congos per se.

  The June 9, 2008 Body of elder letter states the procedure to delete an elder. Instructions are repeated in the new elder book chapter 3. Basically Procedure is the following:

  * If elder commits adultery, fornication, murder etc the body does not need to wait from the society to annouce his deletion. Actually it will be announced in the very next service meeting and judicial action to be taken ASAP.

  * If elder did not commit a gross sin but the body feels he no longer qualifies, the issue is handled during the CO visit unless the visit is not close & matter is urgent. In that case the body meets with the brother and hear him out and analyze if qualifies. They then ask the brother to step outside and they deliberate. If they recommend his deletion and the elder does not agree, then he's allowed to write a letter appealing the decision & that letter is sent along with the elders to the society. Then they all have to wait for an answer from the Society. Meantime the elder body has the right to decide if they want to give the brother any talks, demonstrations, service group etc.

  In order for a whole body to be deleted, there must be blatant negligence, rebelion and or gross sin covered up. In that case The Society will send the CO maybe DO if possible and or prominent elders to decide the matter. Regarding troubleshooters the CO may decide to send an experienced elder to serve in the body and keep an eye on matters. However, he alone cannot take any action and if he doesn't watch his back, the local body of elders can easily trump up charges against him and he'll end up getting deleted as I've seen before when some MTS elder arrives alone to a problematic Congregation.

  Regarding getting information from the service department, good luck as they are very secretive about how they work even among other elders.

  Russell1879
• 

  Reality79

  Interesting stuff.......
• 

  maksym

  I do not have judicial experience however,

  In the Northern Idaho area the local body of elders were removed minus one. I have direct second hand account of this information and know that it occurred. In this particular case the "society" used a mole to see if the local elder body was "sound". The "mole" of which I know personally gave information to the society based on conversations he held with other elders on the telephone. The whole experience got out of hand and the "mole" was categorised like the others. Only after special pleading was the mole allowed to stay but he cried like a baby and said he was "sorry".

  The mole had suffered badly from this and today is still an elder but has emotional problems. The men he turned in were older and more experienced than him. Those men he turned in were like family to him. He turned his back on them. To this day he suffers.

  The way it was handled was very mischievious. He would call the other elders on the phone and get them to agree to something that was wrong and he reported it to the branch. It almost backfired on him.

  The society removed the entire body except the mole. None were disfellowshipped but were removed. The whole thing was labeled as apostasy on the elder body and they needed to be cleaned out.

  I personally think the mole was in need of something. He sought advancement or something but no one will never know.

  True story and a part of the history of the northern Idaho area.
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  cognizant dissident

  When I was a child in the 1970's, one of my parent's good friends, who was an elder in the Greek speaking congregation in Vancouver was df'd for apsotasy. The entire body of elders was removed (not sure if they were all df'd or only a few) and the congregation was disbanded and disbursed to neighbouring congregations.

  When I was a teenager in the early 1980's, a special committee was sent from Bethel (Canada) to investigate wild parties and immorality that was spanning hundreds of young people in the lower mainland. They took names, and many heads rolled, (most that I knew df'd were elder's sons and daughters, including myself).
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  A question

  Thanks for the further responses.

  Has anyone served at the Service Department or at least been a circuit overseer who has dealt with these things?