SEX, LIES, DEMONS, & APOSTASY (page 2)

GoldDustWoman

Alan wrote:

Who built in those "frailties"? According to JW doctrine, God did. Therefore your doctrine is that God is punishing his creatures for acting precisely according to the way he built them.

For me, this is the very thing that completely obliterates even the most well presented argument that there is any kind of "loving" god/jehovah of the bible. Even as kid, I saw the hypocracy and didn't buy into it.

It brings to my mind the forcing of children, even toddlers, to sit silently through long boring meetings. Squirming or fidgeting is not tolerated. I personally know of an 18 month of child that was beaten because she couldn't (YES, couldn't, NOT wouldn't) sit still in her chair. So, her "loving" Daddy took her to the back and beat the tar out of her. Her sad cries listened to approvingly by her Grandmother who sat in the audience of the hall.

If Jehovah is so perfect then what is the point of this whole juvenile chess game? Why not just create what he desires in the first place?

Why set us up? Just like the JW parents of the 18 month old baby. As her desire to run around and play is natural, so is it a natural human trait to explore, question, and despute. It seems that we are only "good" in the WT's gods eyes when we deny those very traits that he so strongly created in us.

I just cannot except the WTS teaching on this, or most things for that matter. I am so grateful that my own children will never have to suffer like that little girl. I don't believe that some utopian fantasy is going to make the beatings that JW kids have to endure, all worth while.

Andee

You can take a whore to culture, but you can't make her think-Dorothy Parker

sadiejive

Can there be any doubt that God’s word identifies the present generation of children, many of whom were who were brought up in the truth, as we say, but who rebelled against the faith of their parents, by these words: “There is a generation that calls down evil even upon its father and that does not bless even its mother. There is a generation that is pure in its own eyes but that has not been washed from its own excrement.”

Technically, YouKnow, couldn't this theory also be applied to the first generation Jehovah's Witnesses (or should I say "bible students")??

There is a generation that calls down evil even upon its father and that does not bless even its mother
...And what other church or organization would have you shun your own mother and father if they were "apostate"? What religion won't even allow it's members to celebrate days designated to give honor to mothers and fathers...or even allow its members to show gratitude for the birth of their parents??

sadie

AlanF

Excellent points, Andee. That's why I simply don't believe that any "God of the Bible" in the image of JWs, other Fundies, or even mainstream Christians exists. There are plenty of excuse-makers, but their excuses never get around this one simple fact: According to their own beliefs, God made us as we are and we suffer for it. As the ancient sage wrote: "As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods; they kill us for their sport." Some Christians try to excuse these notions by saying, "God will fix it in the resurrection". Little comfort, though. One is forced to believe that hundreds of thousands of years of suffering by intelligent creatures is somehow justifiable via "the end justifies the means".

About ten years ago I wrote a 30 page letter to the Society about this. To my surprise they answered (I suspect it was because I called in a favor in a parallel letter to a certain WTS official) but the answer amounted to: We disagree with many of your points but we won't discuss it, and oh by the way, don't ask unprofitable questions.

AlanF

You're learning, sadiejive!

AlanF

refiners fire

I gave the Watchtower God 20 years of my life and got nothing in return except hardship and suffering.
I cant think of a single benefit from my time in it.
Now, I dont care what the Watchtower God wants.
He aint never done nothing for me, that I can see.
Its as simple as that.

I aint interested in Satan and his demons either.
I tried praying to Satan for a while but he never gave me any magical powers to get chicks into bed at will.
So I dumped him too.

refiners fire

Actually I set Satan a test and told him if he gave me humpy hump with three women that I chose, I would serve his Satanic majesty.
I set him a year to produce the goods.
NOTHING happened.
Ive become aware, anything that happens in this world, Ive got to create it myself.
That being the case.. what do I need either of them for??

Reborn2002

Wow.. looks like YouKnow can take the time necessary to type out or copy and paste a quite elaborate post.. yet when his hypocrisy is pointed out for claiming he is a faithful Dub who knowingly debates online in conversation with DA and DF ones, a Watchtower NO-NO. And he also announced his own exit from this site yet remains.. but when he is caught up in his two-sidedness and confronted about it... conveniently YouKnow is NOwhere to be found.

Intriguing.

The true Kingdom of God is located in your heart, not an organization of hypocrites.

www.geocities.com/latinloverchicago/Jason1.html for my new webpage and info!! Im trying to live now!!

sunstarr

Borgfree,

If I remember correctly, my parents believed that Armageddon would come in 1975. Does that mean that most of my life was devoted to rebelling against rebels?

I guess I'm going to hell (i.e. hades/sheol - the grave).

aChristian

Andee,

You asked, "If Jehovah is so perfect then what is the point of this whole juvenile chess game? Why not just create what he desires in the first place? Why set us up?"

The only way the story of Adam and Eve makes sense is to understand that God not only knew how things were going to end up in Eden, but that He deliberately set the whole thing up to make a point. What point? This one. If Adam in paradise, without a problem in the world, could not manage to obey one simple command from God, what chance does any human being have of living their entire trouble-plagued life without sinning either in word, thought or deed? No chance at all. That is the lesson that was illustrated in Eden. Human beings have a sinful nature. A nature which God gave us.

Why did God give us a "sinful" nature? Because "God is love," and because God wanted to create people in his "own image," He wanted to create people whom He could have a loving relationship with. But since true love can be neither forced nor programmed, in order to have loving relationships with us, God had to create us as free people. Free to choose to love God and His ways or to not love God and His ways. In other words, free to do both right and wong, free to do both good and evil.

Because we can do wrong and often do, and because God can't do wrong and never does, we are less righteous than God. And because we are none of us deserve to live forever. That means all human beings have, in effect, from their births been condemned by God to die. Not because of anything Adam did, but because we ourselves all fall short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23)

That's the bad news. Now the Good News. The Bible tells us that God was willing to accept the death of His Son Jesus Christ in place of the deaths which own His high standards - only those who are completely righteous deserve to live forever - had determined we all must suffer. (Matthew 20:28; John 10:11; Romans 3:24; 1 Corinthians 6:20; Ephesians 1:7; 1 Timothy 2:5,6; Hebrews 9:26; 1 Peter 1:18,19; 1 John 1:7; 4:10; Rev. 5:9.)

This is the Good News presented in the pages of the New Testament. That even though God's high standards demanded our deaths as the penalty for our sins, He is willing to accept the death of Jesus Christ in place of the deaths of all who now also accept Christ's death as payment in full for all their sins. And because God accepts Christ's death as payment for the sins of Christians, He no longer considers Christians to be sinners. Rather, He considers them to be righteous ones who are now fully worthy of eternal life. And because He does, He now promises to give eternal life to all who put their faith in Jesus Christ.

thinker

Did I just read this correctly?

Why did God give us a "sinful" nature? Because "God is love," and because God wanted to create people in his "own image,"

God has a sinful nature?

SEX, LIES, DEMONS, & APOSTASY

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