I'm using what pirata said. (if thats ok)
Etna
by Botzwana 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I'm using what pirata said. (if thats ok)
Etna
Apart from 'I don't believe in God or the Bible etc................
***The householder said, "Only those who have accepted Jesus in their lives will be saved." The brother responded with, "We certainly agree with that, (but not in the way you understand it) but where does that leave Abraham, Moses, Job, King David and all the others in the Old Testament who never knew of Jesus?" (Same place they’ve always been. There was no necessity for being ‘saved’ in Jesus before he came. That’s why they had sacrifices. OR as Pirata notes ‘Beth Sarim’) ***A brother was talking with a householder about being saved. (A miracle they got this far) The householder said, 'I have accepted Jesus in my life, recognize that he died for my sins and I'm now saved.' The brother responded with 'Well, if that is the case, shouldn't the Bible be one paragraph long? (That would be nice, a bit like a watchtower tract!) What is the rest of it for? (So the WTB$ can misquote it and make endless Pharisee rules out of it?) That's why we go door to door - to offer people Bible (Actually not using the Bible so much as the Pharisee rules and faulty changing doctrine from men in Brooklyn who consider themselves higher than Jesus) studies to learn about all the requirements from God. ' (God = GB)*** This is from a brother in the Spanish Dover congregation in New Jersey --- The householder usually will ask, "What religion are you?" (Where has this person been?) In most cases we would answer, "Jehovah's Witnesses," and the conversation would normally end there with the words: "Sorry not interested!" (and with good reason) But, reply in this manner: "Jehovah's Witness, and you?" This mandates a reply from the householder, thus allowing us to continue the conversation. (Answer: Masturbating gay blood doner)*** This came from a Regular Pioneer sister in the North congregation in Anchorage, Alaska --- I would like to relate one that our District Overseer/Branch Overseer is known for: When the householder says, "I'm not interested" at the beginning of the conversation, he sometimes (when the time is right) replies: "I don't blame you, I haven't said anything interesting yet." (Sensing sarcasm the householder smacked him hard in the gob)*** This came from a Sister in the Franklin, Illinois congregation --- One circuit overseer suggests leaving a question with the householder whether or not they are too interested in listening to us: We were asking our neighbor's opinion of this, "If Jesus was to return to the earth, what church would he attend?"' It is amazing how many don't automatically say their own. I have used it occasionally and it has allowed for continued conversations. (Jesus being head of the Church wouldn’t need to attend – we’d attend his!) NB: This is then use of the ‘What If’ propaganda technique. What if all JW’s became apostates which kingdom hall would they attend? Idiotic reasoning!*** This is said to be a modified statement of Brother Russell's: There are over 10,000 religions in the world. If God set these up for us to learn to worship Him properly, learn to love one another, and have useful, peaceful lives, we can only arrive at one of two conclusions: Either he failed miserably, or he didn't set them up in the first place and something else is behind them. Do you agree? (This is the propaganda technique of ‘Hobson’s choice’. Only 2 options given when there could be many. My answer would be: ‘One thing I do agree with is that JW’s are not the true faith but a pyramid big business cult posing as a religion. To discover if this is true, do your research outside of the WTB$. Do you agree or will you face disfellowshipping?)*** In a discussion with a householder, the householder made the statement: 'The King James Bible is the only true Bible from God.' The Brother said, 'Oh, is that the one the apostles used? Or, did the apostles have the wrong Bible?' (The apostles had a Bible or are you being a smug judgmental JW? Wow. Is this ‘new light’? Actually that sounds very sarcastic. Another smack in the JW’s gob and well deserved too!)*** This is from a Circuit Overseer in pioneer school: The householder stated that he believed in the Trinity. The Circuit Overseer then said, 'Oh, then you have the latest information on it?' The man asked what that was, and the Circuit Overseer brought out the Trinity brochure! (The ‘latest’ information? When will this become ‘old’ information under ‘new light’ that I will be disfellowshipped for believing? So, Mr cocky JW, explain the ‘Trinity’ without referring to the ‘modalist’ view the watchtower thinks it is!)*** This is from a Circuit Overseer: When talking with someone who believes in the Trinity, they seem to focus on John 1:1 for some reason. This Circuit Overseer says to them, "I'll tell you what, You take your best Scripture for the Trinity and throw it out and I'll take my best Scripture against it and throw it out, and then let's talk about the Trinity from the Scriptures." Great idea! (Throw the scripture out? Typical of what the GB does. Pick and choose, alter and destroy scripture. This would then be a load of crap based on JW ‘proof’ scriptures with any logical and doctrinally sound argument against them getting the ‘circular reasoning’ treatment.)*** From a brother in the Dominican Republic: Trinitarians usually start off with some "proof texts" and then launch into some Greek words they know. (Again how did the conversation ever get this far?) I have learned now instead of trying to "duke it out" with them, I bypass all of that by saying, "Let's suppose you are right, (‘Hypnotic Language’ propaganda technique where the ‘victim’ thinks the JW is on the same page as they are) the Trinity does exist and we are wrong, then please show me from the Bible what I should do to find the right religion." (Oh, that’s a piece of cake. Acts 17:11 The Bereans are models of right-minded followers. Though zealous to hear, they did not thoughtlessly or uncritically accept what Paul said. They first tested it for themselves from the Scriptures and then submitted themselves to following it. May I suggest you FIRST study the history and ever changing doctrines of your own religion before you come to my door being sarcastic about my beliefs. May I suggest you read Crisis of Conscience!) This usually stops them cold, as they have never thought about guiding someone to the truth, (What an arrogant statement! Does this mean forcing them to swallow the ever changing ‘truth’ of the WTBS rather than the Bible?) only about stopping JW's on the Trinity. (Do JW’s HONESTLY belive non JW’s live solely to fight against the watchtower? Such big headed statements lacking in any Christlike humility!) *** This is from a brother in the Cortez congregation in Connecticut --- A brother was talking with a householder about the immortality of the soul. The brother turned to Genesis 2:17 and read it to the householder and said, 'Here God states that you will positively die.' Then he turned to Genesis 3:4 and read it to the householder and said, 'Here Satan said you will positively not die. Which do you choose to believe?' (I believe this scripture ‘’And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy bothsoul and body in Ge?hen′na’’ (Matthew 10:28) explain the difference between 'both' and 'same'!
Jesus said "I am the truth........." so how can they claim to BE the truth? Then Id show them my 42DDs.....thats a great conversation stopper!
Lol @ Scooby Doo
Loz x
In Romania, the best conversation stopper looks like this:
JW: - Hello, we are here to talk with the people in the neighbourhood about God and Jesus and bla,bla,bla....
Citizen: - Yes, in Romans 13:1, we are told to submit to Jehovah and to Jesus, bla,bla,bla
JW: Leaves immediately, not saying a word.
The True Faith JWs in Romania have a mental fixation with this verse. No matter what, when they speak to a JW they will draw the dialogue to this verse, especially if they are not well versed in the use of the Bible. Their understanding of Romans 13:1 is the same as the old JW light from the 60s. Just say that Romans 13:1 points to Jehovah and to Jesus and you can rout any JW posse. True Faith JWs are considered apostates by WTJWs, so the conversation would end abruptly with the JW leaving without saying anything.
Oh makes me sick to think not so many years ago I would have used some of thosestupid lines.
If one comes to my door I am going to say I used to believe like you and now that I know the Truth about your religion I have become so much happier. May God bless you with the ability to see it too
***The householder said, "Only those who have accepted Jesus in their lives will be saved." The brother responded with, "We certainly agree with that, but where does that leave Abraham, Moses, Job, King David and all the others in the Old Testament who never knew of Jesus?"
I'm glad that you're in agreement with me and you have a point in your question. In addition to those alive before Jesus' day, where does that leave the billions that are alive today that have never known of Jesus when your Witness Armageddon comes any day now?
***A brother was talking with a householder about being saved. The householder said, 'I have accepted Jesus in my life, recognize that he died for my sins and I'm now saved.' The brother responded with 'Well, if that is the case, shouldn't the Bible be one paragraph long? What is the rest of it for? That's why we go door to door - to offer people Bible studies to learn about all the requirements from God. '
Do you presume to know more about the Bible than me? A pefect stranger you've never met before? You cold call on me and think you know more than me? That's presumptuous don't you think? No, it's more than that. It's insulting. Just because you're versed in the doctrines of your particular religion doesn't mean that you know more about the Bible than me or anyone else on this street. If you want to share your beliefs, that's fine, but do not think so highly of yourself to think you know more than me and that I need a lesson in Bible study from you. Good-bye and get off my porch...now.
*** This came from a Regular Pioneer sister in the North congregation in Anchorage, Alaska --- I would like to relate one that our District Overseer/Branch Overseer is known for: When the householder says, "I'm not interested" at the beginning of the conversation, he sometimes (when the time is right) replies: "I don't blame you, I haven't said anything interesting yet."
And I'm quite sure that anything you say from this point on will not be interesting to me, so why don't you save your breath and take your message somewhere else. Bye.
*** This came from a Sister in the Franklin, Illinois congregation --- One circuit overseer suggests leaving a question with the householder whether or not they are too interested in listening to us: We were asking our neighbor's opinion of this, "If Jesus was to return to the earth, what church would he attend?"'
Well, I guess Catholics would say their church and Mormons would say their church and I'm sure you think he'd come to your church. But from what I know about Jesus, he didn't focus on any one group. His message was for all. He crossed all boundries and actually turned the Jewish Pharisees on their ear with his insurrectionist ideas. I think that Jesus would probably do the same today. He'd chastise all the churches that claim to profess to be HIS church and announce that he never knew you.
*** This is said to be a modified statement of Brother Russell's: There are over 10,000 religions in the world. If God set these up for us to learn to worship Him properly, learn to love one another, and have useful, peaceful lives, we can only arrive at one of two conclusions: Either he failed miserably, or he didn't set them up in the first place and something else is behind them. Do you agree?
You're absolutely right, I do agree. God either failed miserably or he didn't set them up in the first place. If God failed miserably why should I bother to listen to you, you who claim to represent him? You would just be another failure. Or - if he didn't set them up, then again, why should I bother to listen to you? God didn't set you in place. You are obviously an imposter. Something else is obviously behind your attempt to sway me to your church.
*** In a discussion with a householder, the householder made the statement: 'The King James Bible is the only true Bible from God.' The Brother said, 'Oh, is that the one the apostles used? Or, did the apostles have the wrong Bible?'
I don't have a retort for this one. I'm not sure which statement is the more stupid statement. Therefore I'll just leave the idiots to argue among themselves...
*** This is from a Circuit Overseer in pioneer school: The householder stated that he believed in the Trinity. The Circuit Overseer then said, 'Oh, then you have the latest information on it?' The man asked what that was, and the Circuit Overseer brought out the Trinity brochure!
Where does one start? Am I to assume that the Trinity brochure is an addendum to Holy Scripture then? That God endorsed this publication and that it is now part of the Bible canon? eh, nevermind.... just too stupid to try to deal with...
*** This is from a Circuit Overseer: When talking with someone who believes in the Trinity, they seem to focus on John 1:1 for some reason. This Circuit Overseer says to them, "I'll tell you what, You take your best Scripture for the Trinity and throw it out and I'll take my best Scripture against it and throw it out, and then let's talk about the Trinity from the Scriptures." Great idea!
WTF... you throw out a scripture and I'll throw out a scripture and then we'll argue? No, not a great idea. An idiotically stupid idea. Especially for someone who claims that the Bible is the infallible word of God. If God put it there, then he fucking very well meant for you to consider it, did he not? Dumbass...
*** From a brother in the Dominican Republic: Trinitarians usually start off with some "proof texts" and then launch into some Greek words they know. I have learned now instead of trying to "duke it out" with them, I bypass all of that by saying, "Let's suppose you are right, the Trinity does exist and we are wrong, then please show me from the Bible what I should do to find the right religion." This usually stops them cold, as they have never thought about guiding someone to the truth, only about stopping JW's on the Trinity.
You're deflecting the argument, Mr. JW. You came here to prove to me why I should accept your religion. As soon as I start to present my evidence for my belief, you back peddle. By supposing the I am right, you have lost all reason for being here. You came here to prove to me your belief, not the other way around. By accepting that I am right, even if in debate only, you have forfeited. If I'm right then you are wrong. There is no need for me to continue this discussion. You thought you could save my soul but I don't give a shit about yours. You figure it out on your own.
*** This is from a brother in the Cortez congregation in Connecticut --- A brother was talking with a householder about the immortality of the soul. The brother turned to Genesis 2:17 and read it to the householder and said, 'Here God states that you will positively die.' Then he turned to Genesis 3:4 and read it to the householder and said, 'Here Satan said you will positively not die. Which do you choose to believe?'
Actually, you're taking God's words out of context. God wasn't talking to you or me. He was talking to Adam and Eve. Their punishment for eating the fruit was to die. That's a whole theological discussion on it's own, of which I would be willing to discuss, but that would be digressing from your point...which is that we're all meant to die. If that is the case, does that not contradict your belief that Armageddon is imminent and if you are faithful that you will survive to live forever on a paradise earth? So which do you chose to believe? That you positively will die...or that you may live forever on a paradsie earth?
All these snotty, retarded retorts. No wonder JWs complain about having doors slammed in their faces. I never had a door slammed in my face and I preached a lot. People have a lot more respect for someone humbly preaching the Bible than someone arrogantly preaching the Watchtower.
"I'll tell you what, You take your best Scripture for the Trinity and throw it out and I'll take my best Scripture against it and throw it out, and then let's talk about the Trinity from the Scriptures."
While I don't believe in the Trinity, I've heard this inane argument before and it made me cringe. Let's hold JWs to that standard:
Okay... You throw out your best scripture for your idea of the "faithful and discreet slave" and I'll throw out my best against it, then we'll use the Bible to discuss human leadership in Christianity.
LOL Pamsgirl!
Get 'em with both barrels!
@WontLeave = Okay... You throw out your best scripture for your idea of the "faithful and discreet slave" and I'll throw out my best against it,
Yes!
Then throw out your best scripture for the 'light gets brighter' (new light), and I'll.............wait a minute.........I have nothing to throw out!