Awesome! I have subscribed to his blog. I love the way he thinks!! thanks for sharing
Reasons for disbelief: The top ten reasons I am an atheist
by whereami 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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tec
Not that I am religious - but I do have faith, so here are a couple of my own thoughts to add to his reasons. And Whereami usually wants believers to respond to his threads:
Other Religions Exist
:All this says to me is that a lot of people have sought out a creator in the past, and still do... and also that they pass their version of that creator onto their children.
Faith is Rewarded to the Same Degree as Disbelief
:There are things that I tried to do on my own for a long time, but could not. Not until I prayed for and drew upon the strength I receive from my faith in Christ. I know others say the same, but hat is between them and God. But my faith didn't come from prayers answered, or not. I had the faith first.
God Can’t Be Proven
:True. He cannot.
The God of the Bible Can be Disproved: The God of the Bible (and the Koran, and the Book of Mormon, etc.) already has enough going against him… If he were really the author of the Bible, it would probably be much less full of atrocities, contradictions, plagiarisms and absurdities. Considering the only real knowledge we have on the subject comes either from numinous, unverifiable personal experiences or ancient books of mythology which can be proven to be as I’ve just described them (in a word: nonsense), the God which they describe can thus safely be assumed to be fictional.
Just bolded the key words that I have a problem with in that (even though I ALSO believe that God is not represented by the bible, but rather by Christ. Just wanted to point out that nothing was actually disproved... just assumed or believed upon according to what might or probably should be.
Religion is, By Nature, Deluding
:I agree.
As for the nature of God, I see that through Christ. I do see the false things attributed to him in the OT, but I also see the spots where some prophet or another is trying to assert that God does not want some of the things the people thought. Even Christ said, as recorded, that Moses gave them some laws because their hearts were hard and they were unwilling to listen to anything else. But that it was not that way in the beginning.
Science is Obviously Better
:Science is better at proof - though not any better, imo, of changing what was once accepted to something new. Just that more often than not, emotions are not tied up in the science, and so people move past old theories and embrace new ones without fear and/or bias.
Not every believer denies evolution or any other scientific discovery. He might not see that, however, having been a fundamental baptist pastor (in the States, perhaps?)
The Origins of All Religions are Clear: The first man to invent religion obviously looked up at the sky and said “I have no idea how all this got here. I made this hut, and this fire, and this wagon, and I tamed this wild dog, and so whatever made the sky must be something very similar to me, only much more powerful.”
Obviously?
Come on. Back that up. There are critical thinkers in here. Do you like what he's saying because he's speaking reason and proof, or because he agrees with your own belief?
There’s No Difference: Religion and a Relationship with God are just jargon for the exact same thing. When I was a Christian, I used to use the phrase “Some people have a religion, but what I have is a relationship with Jesus Christ.” I also used to throw around the words “Head Knowledge and Heart Knowledge” quite a bit. But in reality, it’s all just fancy ways of saying the same thing: having an emotional, spiritual experience that can’t be quantified logically. It’s faith, either way… it’s believing in something that isn’t real. Some people just get arrogant about it and think that only they have the right answer, and then stupid phrases like the ones above get formed.
Its faith, yes. And it is believing in something that isn't physically proven. He sounds as if he still thinks that only he has the right answer, imo.
Religion is Destructive
Everything he said under this is generalization that might be true of his own experiences but is not true of all experiences. But you guys already know that.
Christians Don’t Really Get Persecuted
:Oh, I'm sure that some do. Sometimes it might just be teasing, or mocking, or actual anger - though I agree that a lot of that today is toward the religion and what it has done. But I do agree that in the States at least, the atheist is persecuted. That doesn't happen here in Canada - not once in my experience, that is. I can't speak for other places. But I have certainly been mocked for believing in the invisible sky daddy.
Evil Exists in the World
:Yes, it does. I don't see how God is responsible for the evil we (humans) do. We are responsible.
I don't know the answer to the little girl who's been hurt. I only know that we created the world that has such atrocity within it - one misstep at a time.
Anyway, there's my two cents to this thread.
Tammy
(I knew it wasn't Whereami's story though... not when I read baptist pastor ) -
whereami
Hey everyone. Sorry I should have made it more clear that this was not my experience. Actually it was LWT who sent this article to me.
But when I read it, it reminded me of what I also went through when I was in the cult wrestling with my doubts. Many similar thoughts and reasoning went through my mind as well.
(Son-of-a-gun!! I never knew that you were a Baptist minister, at one time!!! )
HAHAHAHA very funny, yes. You never know ziddina, maybe one day. The lord works in mysterious ways so they say. PRAISE THE LORD!!!!!
And Whereami usually wants believers to respond to his threads:
Thanks Tammy...you're a sweetheart. I see where you're comming from your responses. I can respect that.
The Origins of All Religions are Clear: The first man to invent religion obviously looked up at the sky and said “I have no idea how all this got here. I made this hut, and this fire, and this wagon, and I tamed this wild dog, and so whatever made the sky must be something very similar to me, only much more powerful.”
Obviously?
Come on. Back that up. There are critical thinkers in here. Do you like what he's saying because he's speaking reason and proof, or because he agrees with your own belief?
I think that's a very reasonable "theory" on the matter. I believe many Archaeologists, Historians ect would agree with that general idea. Doesn't sound far fetched to me, no? Actually sounds very reasonable. All you have to do to see that today is go to any primitive tribe today whether it be in Africa or in the Amazons in Brazil for example and you can see that they do exactly that. I believe there was a program on that on the History channel or Discovery channel on exactly this issue.
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streets76
Bravo.
...the only reason I believed in Creationism [or God or the bible, etc.] was because that’s what I wanted to believe in...
Bravo.
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PSacramento
Those are all valid reasons and very well thought out.
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JamesS
I agree with much of that original post, but I'm not sure about the statement "you can’t disprove something you don’t have proof of".
If you do have actual proof of it, then you won't be able to disprove it. I think what he is saying is "You can't disprove something that somebody has not offered their alleged proof of. If you have their alleged proof, you can produce a logically sound counter-argument".
What he is actually referring to is the principle that states the grounds for the acceptance of an idea being a theory by the scientific community, rather than an idea being a pure speculation, or work of imagination without basis. The difference between a "scientific theory", and a "pure speculation", is simple: A theory is testable, a groundless speculation is not.
Issac Newton said "I think the planets have an attractive force that I have calculated and my calculations SAY SOMETHING about the workings of the Solar System and you can go and TEST them". People did, and his theory was proved correct (in all practical day-to-day matters).
If I say to you "I think that all the galaxies and systems and planets throughout the entire universe are all connected by an invisble and ENTIRELY UNDETECTABLE chewing gum", it is groundless speculation because it cannot be tested.
I think that is what this guy is saying about God. There is no logical test that can prove or disprove God. And we should never expect there will be because humanity's definition of God is that he is supernatural. Something is either logically deconstructable, and is thus not supernatural, or it is supernatural and thus not logically deconstructable.
No answer as to whether God exists can be derived logically.
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Vachi 8 He Is
I will agree with this, that "many will be mislead". In general I believe that MOST people have at least some kind of religion they belong to. I also believe that most of those would say when asked that they themselves have the true path leading to god. Political correctness comes up with the ones who say "Oh it doesn't matter which...." Thinking about this for a moment I would have to say that either everyone is right or everyone is wrong. If everyone is right, including Satanists, then we have a problem on the scale of immovable object meets unstoppable force. I believe that all religions, at least organized ones have it wrong. I see this scripture "Watch out that you are not deceived. For MANY (remember the most above) will come in my name, claiming 'I am he,' and 'The time is near' do not go after them." as meaning this: First I know this was taken out of context and jesus was speaking to a group at the time. But if I told you to go in your house, lock your door, and do not answer it for ANYONE even if the one says it's me, then from that you might have to take it as "Vachi has no intention of returning here to this house". Oh what about, you will know my followers by their works? Negative. Man chooses what they want to see. Rutherford, for example, read the bible and DECIDED or CHOSE TO SEE that god couldn't possibly be this petty, angry, egotistical, cruel, no-better-than-a-man, jackass of a deity and so a little rewording here, a few omitions there and BAM! Antibacterial had soap for god. So leaving it up to man, imperfect man to see........really?
The bottle of water looks at the the thimble of water and laughs.
The bucket of water looks at the bottle of water and laughs.
The bathtub of water looks at the bucket of water and laughs.
The pond of water looks at the bathub of water and laughs.
The lake of water looks at the pond of water and laughs.
The ocean of water looks at the lake of water and laughs.
I look at them all and laugh. The link between all of them? They are all contained. Here people are fighting over which religion is better, which has the truth and so on and so forth. It is a virus that has held man back. This is how many are being misled. You can just be sitting somewhere minding your business and here comes Brother Basham N. Dahedwitit. If atheists are such devils advocates then why isn't it the other way around? I mean, we make up the body in part that walks about like a roaring lion SEEKING......SEEKING to devour someone. How many have nonbelievers have been sought after? You turn on the radio, "Man, Steve Harvey got a radio show y'all" or "Not a sermon, just a thought". You're at home when *Doorbell* someone in your house goes to answer, and you realize what day it is, and you also realize you forgot to tell them that you'd deal with the door by not answering it. Then, like something out of a movie and in slo-mo, you run to the door but the other someone is already at it twisting the knob. "Nooooooooooo" you yell out in your head, like trying to save said other person from a runaway bus. But alas, the door has been opened and you hear "Hello, we're out talking with your friends and neighbors today, and want to ask a question......"The amount of silent expletives that follows....classic. But why does god, a supposed all powerful deity, NEED for someone to be his voice in an organized religion? He undoubtedly would have the power to speak with everyone on an individual level. Religious leaders know this would jeopardize their position in power so they promote groupthink. It's not just in the kingdumb hall either. Groupthink also makes christian church pastors rich because of the tythes and offerings bit. "I don't wanna look a certain way to the congregation so I'll give"
At least with me, I don't talk about religion unless the topic has been brought up to me first. Nothing tied to god should bring up the amount of hatred/separation that it does by all parties. Couple that with the inexcusable acts god took part in and the way it wants to blame Satan for everything, then my choice becomes clear. (-.-),,|,, him.
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tec
Thanks, Whereami.
I think that's a very reasonable "theory" on the matter. I believe many Archaeologists, Historians ect would agree with that general idea. Doesn't sound far fetched to me, no? Actually sounds very reasonable. All you have to do to see that today is go to any primitive tribe today whether it be in Africa or in the Amazons in Brazil for example and you can see that they do exactly that. I believe there was a program on that on the History channel or Discovery channel on exactly this issue.
I actually think it is a reasonable theory, too (except for one thing about it, which I'll get to in a moment). But while we can theorize many things about what prompted something thousands/hundreds of thousands/millions/billions of years ago; we cannot know. So I see nothing obvious about that theory being the truth.
Now, the one thing that I have a problem with this theory is this:
Everything in that man's experience is natural. He sees, touches, hears, smells, tastes the world around him, and everything within it. He is not of a different substance (spirit) as the things he has himself created. He and his creations are of the same realm - physical and natural. He has had no experience of anything beyond the natural.
For him to one day turn and invent a supernatural or spiritual realm to explain his existence when he should have had no concept of that, if indeed it did not exist... that seems implausible to me.
Not impossible. But definitely implausible. Definitely enough to cast more than a shadow of a doubt on this theory, keeping it far from being obvious.
Tammy
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bohm
For him to one day turn and invent a supernatural or spiritual realm to explain his existence when he should have had no concept of that, if indeed it did not exist... that seems implausible to me.
so your saying that the first caveman could think "oh i wonder where this river came from", and he could consider the explanation "someone must have made it" but he could notimagine this person was more powerfull than him? that sound quite silly...
also things like dreams, etc. would seem to strongly indicate another world with different natural laws than this.
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simon17
About persecution, I think we would all agree that the EARLY christians were incredibly persecuted. There's no denying the horror of all those that died in the Colliseum, getting ripped apart limb from limb by lions and wild beasts.
Today, especially in the modernized countries I think its silly to say that Christians are persecuted. Its even silly to say athiests are persecuted. There might be slight bias in some situations one way or the other. Every person alive will get teased about a thousand things during their life and their religion (or lack thereof) is just one of those things. We've all got to get down off our high horse and stop saying we're PERSECUTED. Please. The Jews in the Holocaust were persecuted. I'm not claiming foul until my situation gets to be 1 / 100th as sersious as that!