by whereami 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
God CANNOT be disproven. Even scietists will agree with this statement. Lack of evidence that someone will accept does not mean God is proven to be false.
so you think christians today are not persecuted? http://www.persecution.com/
Good thread though, makes people think. b.t.w. I am an irreligious, non church going follower of Christ. Peace, Lilly
so your saying that the first caveman could think "oh i wonder where this river came from", and he could consider the explanation "someone must have made it" but he could notimagine this person was more powerfull than him? that sound quite silly...
If he could imagine all of those things, then of course he could also imagine a person more powerful than him. That is not the issue. The issue is him imagining a supernatural person more powerful than him; if there is nothing supernatural in existence.
(of course, I don't think there is anything supernatural either... if something exists, then it is within nature... just not nature as we can currently prove it to be)
also things like dreams, etc. would seem to strongly indicate another world with different natural laws than this.
Yes, I considered dreams while I was typing my last post. I don't know that much about dreams. Our imaginations can run wild in them; we can get answers to things we've been thinking so much about because its in our subconscious, and we can simply replay things that we have experienced.
But does the mind dream of things we haven't experienced or known or heard of?
I don't know.
Tammy
Very interesting and thanks for sharing your experience.
I have a couple of comments:
1) Science now in the form of advanced C14 dating and archaeology support the Biblical timeline, at least for the time of the Exodus at the beginning of the reign of Akhenaten, who converted to monotheism becauseof the ten plagues. But you don't find archaeologists or historians linking Akhenaten to the Exodus. So there are a lot of liars and deceivers out there manipulating the "science" that would otherwise support the Bible. If you don't get down to the raw evidence and you follow the sugar-coated and distorted rhetoric of prominent persons in the field, then you get a wrong impression and you logically are led to reject the Bible. So science and the Bible do not contradict each other, at least not as much as is believed by atheists.
2) I can completely emphathize with your "frustration" with God and your conclusion he does not exist. But my experience is totally different. That's because I became the messiah! Per the Bible, an individual, imperfect adult is chosen to become the fleshly manifestation of the messiah at the 2nd coming. He does not have to return in the perfect flesh since that first sacrifice was "once for all time", nor can he use his former perfect human body since it was given in sacrifice. So in order to enter the flesh again for the second coming and the 1000-year reign, a volunteer is used; someone who lies down his own life to allow Christ to live in the flesh again. This reflects the parables of the "prodigal son" and the "Rich Man and Lazarus." I'll skip further details, but basically that person chosen to be the imperfect messiah gets to be rather close to God and his activities at this time. So in my case, I actually got a chance to have an interview with Jehovah himself. So my personal experience is that I know for a fact that not only is there a god, but the god of the Bible is that god. So while you are an atheist and reasonably so because you lack any direct evidence of god, I'm still a believer, not because of the Bible or science, per se, but because of direct interaction with Jehovah himself when I became the chosen "prodigal son" to embody the spirit of Christ for the second coming.
So be assured, here is a god and Armageddon is about to occur, just as prophesied.
Again, I totally empathize with your experience, but am so thankful I don't have to guess about the existence of god.
By the way, he is as described in the Bible. The Bible says he has "wooly hair" and indeed, he would appear to be black with a "natural" which certainly fits the description of "wooly hair."
So in the end atheism is just a misunderstanding. You can take my word for it or wait for Armageddon, when a lot of things will be cleared up about god for the public in general. Still it is nice to have an advanced demonstration of god's reality.
Larsinger: So in my case, I actually got a chance to have an interview with Jehovah himself.
I'd love to see how an interview with Yahweh goes. Did you have to take a piss test? If so, how did you fare?
Again, I totally empathize with your experience, but am so thankful I don't have to guess about the existence of god.
Ah, well, that's fair to the rest of us, isn't it? Bless you, child. We still have to guess.
So in the end atheism is just a misunderstanding. You can take my word for it or wait for Armageddon, when a lot of things will be cleared up about god for the public in general.
Day 8: God invents a game that combines the mystery of Hide-and-Seek with the thrill of Russian Roulette.
tammy, okay so your saying our caveman can think of a being who build eg. mountains.. a human much much more powerfull than any human he has ever encountered. but your saying he could not think of this place as a spirit realm if there was no God?
it make little sence to me. it seem to be an argument from supposed lack of intelligence and or imagination in a hypothetical caveman. how would you go about verifying or disproving such a claim?
Great thread. Thanks for sharing, whereami.
tammy, okay so your saying our caveman can think of a being who build eg. mountains.. a human much much more powerfull than any human he has ever encountered. but your saying he could not think of this place as a spirit realm if there was no God?
Yes, although I wouldn't quite make the leap to God straight from that. More that he could not make the leap to a spiritual anything, if the spiritual did not exist.
how would you go about verifying or disproving such a claim?
I don't know. I'd have to think about it. I can hardly be the first person to think about it though. There probably are studies and theories about it already. I think we would have to first see if it is possible for someone (or a culture, or even an animal species) to conceive of an idea on their own, that we KNOW is false.
I don't think that's possible (which is what I'm basically saying), not without incentive of some sort, and I don't know what sort of incentive would not be considered biasing/influencing a study.
I also don't know of anything that would be equivalent to a creator or spiritual realm from a physical realm, that we know is false. So I think any results could only be a theory and not a proof. Which is basically all that I have. Show me someone who has conceived of something completely new, and not come to their invention without ideas of someone before them, and I might be able to see the possibility a little bit better. That is also an okay place to start:)
Tammy
the hypothetical caveman cannot exist if you believe the Bible. Genesis says that God created the first human pair, so if you believe the Bible, then you have to believe that earliest humans were more intelligent than we are, being perfect and created directly by God.
The "cave men" believed in the spirit realm far more strongly than we do today. I have lived with aboriginals who trace their ancestors back 5,000 or 6,000 years. They all saw and interacted with a spirit realm and they all had ceremonies based around the Great Spirit. They did not think about the God of the Bible and would have rejected such a violent, hate filled creature.
