Question for all you Current/Former Elders out there

by dontplaceliterature 22 Replies latest jw friends

  • blondie
    blondie

    *** w97 1/1 p. 28 Let Us Abhor What Is Wicked ***

    What of a man who unlovingly divorces his wife in order to marry another woman? Perhaps he will eventually repent and be reinstated in the congregation. Over the years he may make progress and “press on to maturity.” (Hebrews 6:1) But as long as his first wife lives without a mate, he will not qualify to serve in a responsible position in the congregation. He is not “a husband of one wife” because he had no Scriptural right to divorce his first wife.—1 Timothy 3:2, 12.

    *** w83 3/15 p. 29 Honor Godly Marriage! ***

    Scriptural Divorce

    Are there any circumstances under which a Christian may go further and obtain a divorce with freedom to remarry? Remember, Jesus counseled, “What God has yoked together let no man put apart.” But he went on to indicate that there could be a proper ground for divorce, for he said: “Whoever divorces his wife, except on the ground of fornication, and marries another commits adultery.”—Matthew 19:6, 9; see also 5:32.

    Does this mean that if a Christian tires of a marriage mate or ‘falls in love’ with another person, he can freely use some situation involving fornication to change partners? Sad to say, in some cases where both partners claim to be believers, the device of committing fornication (usually adultery) has been used in a scheming and willful way to break Scriptural marriage ties. Can such ones be so foolish as to think that Jehovah does not know the “thoughts and intentions of the heart”? (Hebrews 4:12, 13) Such seem to have taken the viewpoint that they can commit immorality deliberately, be disfellowshipped for a year or so, and then with a new marriage mate “repent” and be reinstated in the congregation.

    In such a case, however, considerable time should elapse before elders could even entertain any request for reinstatement. Conscientious elders would not be hasty. They need to see very clear evidence of fruits befitting repentance. Even if such a sinner were in due course reinstated, it would be many years, if ever, before the elders could recommend him for special privileges in the congregation, and in any event not before the remarriage or death of the innocent mate. (1 Timothy 3:2, 12) We can appreciate the seriousness of this sort of planned adultery before Jehovah God by recalling that under his righteous Law in ancient Israel adulterers would have been stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 22:22) And today, whatever congregations may decide, Jehovah is the ultimate Judge. “God will judge fornicators and adulterers.”—Hebrews 13:4.

    *** w79 11/15 pp. 31-32 Questions From Readers ***

    If a man (or, a woman) ran off with another’s mate, could he be forgiven and accepted back into the Christian

    congregation?

    This sort of thing occurs with some frequency among those not trying to live by Bible standards. By comparison, it is infrequent among those associated with Jehovah’s people, which makes it more shocking if it does occur. Still, there is no need to think that a case like this should be handled according to some human rule. As with other sins, before such a person could be accepted by God and his people, the sinner would have to repent and show clearly fruits of repentance.

    God’s dealings with the Israelites indicate his forgiveness, at times, of even shocking and persistent sin. (Deut. 4:30; Isa. 55:7; 57:16-18; Zech. 1:3, 4) Jesus mentioned the “joy in heaven over one sinner that repents.” Then he illustrated the point with the story of the prodigal son who squandered his money on debauched living with harlots. When the son came to his senses, returned and sought forgiveness for sinning against both heaven and his father, the father warmly forgave him.—Luke 15:1-7, 11-24.

    Yet, the Bible also shows that a Christian who sins and does not repent should be expelled from the congregation in order to keep it spiritually pure. (1 Cor. 5:1-5, 11-13) That happened to a man in Corinth who openly lived an immoral life. The Scriptures indicate that in order for him to be accepted back into the congregation such a man would have to repent, reject his immoral course, turn around and produce fruit befitting repentance. Apparently he did so soon afterward. In Second Corinthians, thought to have been written less than a year later, the apostle Paul urged the congregation to forgive a sinner, evidently referring to that disfellowshiped man who must have repented.—2 Cor. 2:5-10; Matt. 3:7, 8; Acts 26:20.

    This Scriptural disfellowshiping procedure is employed by congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses today, also. And in accord with this example, there is no set length of time before reinstatement; it awaits genuine repentance, which may even take years.

    In the unusual case brought up in the question, scheming and deceit may well have been manifest. For example, a man (perhaps himself married) gets infatuated with someone else’s wife. There then may be hidden flirting, secret meetings and unrevealed displays of passion. Lies and deceit may be used to keep this from others, particularly the innocent mate or mates. In time the pair might run off together, and after unscriptural divorce may marry each other. They may well have calculated the outcome, realizing that disfellowshiping will follow. But they think that “maybe in a year or so” they can claim repentance and get reinstated, thus having things just the way they want. However, it is a grave mistake to presume on divine mercy. Galatians 6:7 guarantees: “God is not one to be mocked. For whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap.” That Jehovah looks with disapproval upon fornication is seen in many scriptures and this should not be overlooked by those entertaining wrong desires.—Compare Revelation 21:8; 22:15.

    If in time such a disfellowshiped person comes to the spiritual elders representing the congregation and asks to be reinstated, what occurred, as well as the wrongdoer’s attitude, would have to be considered. Regarding the unity of the faith, Paul spoke of not being influenced by “the trickery of men, by means of cunning in contriving error.” (Eph. 4:13, 14) That is true in avoiding doctrinal error and it is equally so in avoiding having in the congregation persons who deliberately have used deceit and trickery to accomplish wickedness.—Compare 2 Corinthians 11:13; Psalm 101:7; 119:118.

    The committee of elders handling such a request for reinstatement would want to give thought to the difference between a person who succumbs to sin in a moment of weakness and someone who conspires to sin. We can recall that God showed mercy to Peter after he denied Jesus three times; yet God executed Ananias and Sapphira, who schemed in their hearts how to carry out their deceit.—Acts 5:1-11.

    Elders thus need to exercise great caution in cases where hypocritical pretense and conspiracy are involved. A person may profess sorrow and repentance, but if he were back where he started, would he “do it all over again”? Would he leave his mate for another? Of course, now he has entered a new marriage and so cannot simply end it and return to the way things were before; the former marriage ended with the divorce, adultery and remarriage. (Matt. 19:9) Yet, does he manifest genuine repentance, being “crushed” and cut to the heart? (Isa. 57:15) Does he have a repulsion for the sin he committed, rather than mere sorrow that he is disfellowshiped and is not able to enjoy Christian association? Has he over a sufficient period of time, which is not predetermined, produced the fruit that befits repentance? The elders would need to be convinced, without a doubt, that there is true repentance. If they do not sincerely feel confident on this, they may decide to wait and meet again to review the matter after more evidence has accumulated.

    The elders should feel keenly their responsibility to protect the congregation, yet always being conscious of God’s mercy and desire that persons gain life. (Rom. 2:4) They realize that they do not have superhuman ability to read hearts and motives perfectly, as does Jehovah, to whom the sinner is accountable. (Heb. 4:13) So they will strive to guide their consideration and decision by God’s Word and what they can determine as to the disfellowshiped person’s attitude and heart condition. If in time the committee of elders should conclude that the sinner has truly repented and worked to purify his heart, reinstatement is in order, even as occurred with the man in Corinth. (Jas. 4:8) But there is no set time for that to take place. And even though the congregation may reinstate such a sinner, it is to be remembered that he or she must yet “stand before the judgment seat of God” to render an account.—Rom. 14:10-12.

  • sir82
    sir82

    The elder's manuals (both old and new) talk about "works befitting repentance" as evidence that someone could be reinstated.

    If I recall correctly, it does mention "apologizing to the offended party" as one such "work".

    As far as putting it in writing, I don't recall that being mentioned anywhere. It could be that the committee on this case has a real stubborn coot or 2 or 3 who only views an apology as "real" if it is written.

    The whole concept of "jumping thru hoops to get reinstated" and "restrictions" once one is reinstated, is completely and utterly outside of the scriptures. Are you really surprised that the organization, or the judicial committee, does extra-biblical things?

  • doinmypart
    doinmypart

    In regards to works that befit repentance, the 1991 Elder manual poses the question, "Has he made restitution, expressed willingness to do so, or apologized to offended persons, those damaged by his sinful course?"

    When I was an elder, the BOE and Judicial Committees often considered this point when someone wanted to be reinstated. I'm not saying the OP's mother is correct in her assessment, but considering how some congregations tend to be rumor mills, she may not be too far from the truth.

    The new Elder manual doesn't ask all of the questions regarding repentance/reinstatement as the old manual did, but I'm sure a lot of elders out there still have the old questions ingrained...is the person cooperative, are his answers forthright, is he trying to fool the congregation, does he have remorse over reproach on God's people, etc.

  • Violia
    Violia

    In between, Warning Rant ahead ( placing a sad smile here as this is a serious subject). I'm not an elder (female), but have seen this same situation so many times in every congo I ever attended. I don't need to handle a case to use common sense. Hopefully you will stay a while with us and eventually feel free enough that you too will not let elders, the wts, dictate yours or anyone else's marriage. I have a lot of personal feelings about his as I have known too many folks affected by the wts "rules"-folks I cared a lot about.

    I am not downplaying adultery. It is very serious. I am saying it is fairly common now among jws. I have always thought the wts needs to stay out of our bedrooms and leave our marriages alone. If adultery has happened it signals a serious problem between the couple . " Worldly" couples seek marriage therapy and even then it frequently ends in divorce . I do not see why the elders need to inject themselves into a private issue as this. Many states have laws now that allow divorce for incompatibility. I'd say that is fair to say the couple is incompatible if adultery has occurred.

    Yes some persons scheme to remarry another, and others just somehow stumble into it- I guess. It is still adultery and the innocent mate - completely innocent or not- are free to divorce and remarry if they wish. The other person ( perpetrator) is also.The elders try and determine if the innocent mate has contributed to causing the adultery and if there is any basis to save the marriage. That is OK, a marriage therapist would do the same thing. I do not see what benefit it is to torture these couples like this. Divorce is serious but so is rape, child molesters, and other crimes , sins. I do not see them applying the same sanctions to rapist as they do those who commit adultery and remarry.

    Personally I think out of common courtesy the offending couple should move and not stay and torture the innocent parties. I have seen that . If they are repentant, they should be allowed to move on with their lives like anyone else.

    Repentance is repentance. If they qualify, they should be reinstated. We all know that it is God who truly grants forgiveness, so let go of the SPITE and vindictiveness , and let God judge. This should be treated like any other DF offense and not receive special torture.

    I personally do not let the wts or the elders have authority in my marriage. I let love and common sense, fairness, goodness, kindness , the golden rule, marriage vows, help guide my life. . Once you free your mind of wts rules and the elders authority, life becomes so much simpler .if an affair ooccurs, you an your spouse ALONE work it out. ( not saying your friends can't help etc). Professional help maybe also be needed- in private.

    Again, not condoning , just saying it is a private matter between couples. Done daily in the "world" and somehow they move on and continue with life. jws can do the same thing. Not saying it is a happy thing, it's not. The end of a marriage is a sad thing-- it a death of a relationship. I do recall a time when divorce was almost unheard of among jws. It just did not happen. A lot of sad marriages, folks who just hated each other staying together b/c they would be forced to commit adultery ( then be DF) to free themselves. That is a sad way to live and the wts should not do this to people. Some people should get divorced and move on.

    The letter writing idea is OK, but unless their are children and you must maintain a relationship, well, do you need to? Maybe , maybe not. I'd be very careful about putting anything in writing -it could be used against you. you can say how sorrry you feel, if indeed you do feel that way.

    sorry for the rant.

    V

  • nugget
    nugget

    spoke to hubby ex elder and it may be in the congregation policy files. Our old congregation has applied this principle in cases where a spouse has committed adultery and this is something they are mandated to do to prove repentance.

    Needless to say there is no scriptual command to do this it is another man made directive to add to the pain and exert power over others.

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    One I know about included the DF brother could never have privileges, including mikes, until his first wife died or committed adultery in some way, remarrying or whatever.

    WTS policy. See Blondie's post of the Elder's Book.

    She should have divorced her husband first before sleeping around on him, if she intended to leave him anyway.

    I suspect this would only add to the issue of it all being a "planned" putting away of her husband.

    My mother then advised me that the reason they are disfellowshipped still is that they have not "done what The Elders have asked them to do." Now, why my mother would know this, is beyond me. My dad isn't even an Elder.

    Isn't it interesting that everyone just assumes an elder's wife knows everything going on in a confidential situation..........(you got that right!)

  • headisspinning
    headisspinning

    I guess we're gonna be SOL for a loooooong time!

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    They had a spate of d/f's and reinstatements back in the day , when they figured that couples were playing the system ...doing the thing, divorcing, and getting reinstated with new wife to live happily ever after....

    They started, as Blondie showed us, to insist on longer terms of d/f in these cases. We had one of these once. It was a neighbouring cong but everybody knew of it. They were out for about 2 years and still faced some antagonism when they came back into the fold.

    I cannot believe that a written apology is WT policy in these cases. There could be legal implications for the couple if property is still being sorted ..

    I would not put it past some local bodies though..It depends how much they liked you and wanted you back, or not?

  • mamalove
    mamalove

    Well in my old cong, there was some hanky panky going on with couples. Full blown sexcapades for years, the people were "in love." NO ONE GOT DF'd..... Why? I think because people tried to keep it hush hush, they were all prominent families, popular, one couple had money, and the "innocent" spouses forgave and took their offending mates back. Every congo is different I think.

  • dontplaceliterature
    dontplaceliterature

    @DesirousOfChange

    I suspect this would only add to the issue of it all being a "planned" putting away of her husband.

    True, but at least it would have shown some compassion and respect for the offended mate. I can only imagine the embarassment that would come from being "cheated on."

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit