Theism or Atheism? If you awoke with amnesia tomorrow...

by unshackled 53 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  jaguarbass

  If I woke up with amnesia tomorrow, I would at some point question how I got here, just as I do now.

  And I would weigh theism vs atheism.

  I would find that atheism discredited most of what theism puts forth.

  Then I would say the truth is cold, cruel and ugly.

  I can comfort myself with some drugs or intellectual delusion.

  I would want hope for a better tomorrow, I would want to hope to be reunited with my lost loved ones.

  At some point I might find that the bible and belief in Jesus offers that.

  I'd probably realize that I was saved to a better future by faith not works, not meeting attendance or selling

  magazines or bibles. ANd I would be content with that realization/ delusion and go about by business of enjoying

  my life today.

  And I would probably also realize that the only way I could hold on to that faith and comfort was to give it away.
• 

  tenyearsafter

  I think it is man's nature to search for answers to the unanswered...if I had a fresh slate to work from, I think I would most likely look at various belief systems from Christianity to Atheism, including Eastern beliefs...not knowing what was sensible. I also think my nature of thinking there is more to life than just 70-80 years of existence would make me gravitate to something that offers hope. That may seem a bit unrealistic to some, but I want to believe that there is more than just a "dirt nap" awaiting me!
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  FHN, I believe that you and your girlfriends saw things move that morning, however, when you make such a claim it is best to report exactly what was observed without adding any interpretations of what it might be. There is a distinction between evidence [be it anecdotal, scientific, or otherwise], and interpretations of that evidence.

  There are no interpretations. The thing did what it was asked to do. It understood and it did it. But not what I was thinking in my mind, which was for it to move the entire flag, stick and all and wave it around. So, I know it probably didn't read my mind. It assumed I meant for it to move just the fabric flag.

  What do you mean when you say it was an "unseen being"?

  Could you please define "unseen being"?

  I'm not going to call it a ghost. I'm not going to call it an angel. I'm not going to call it a demon. I am not going to call it an alien. I don't know what kind of being it was. Unseen/invisable: none of us could see the being that was moving the curtains, flag and candle. We do know it understood us and it was making its presence known. If it were just the candles and curtains, it wouldn't be a big deal. But for it to do what I ask and move that flag, not just once, but three times is a pretty big deal. And there was a boy in the room, it wasn't just girls. This is simply an experience. You would have had to be there to see it to decide for yourself what to do with it. I wonder why these beings do not reveal themselves to everyone. Why do I call them unseen beings? Because you can't see them, but they give evidence to you that they are very much there. It doesn't matter to me if people believe us. I'm grateful for the experience because now I know that we are not the only intelligent beings that exist. I know there is an otherworldly existence beyond ours.
• 

  nicolaou

  BTTT. Wondering what happened to Nicolaou.

  My sincere apologies FHN, I'd forgotten to come back to this one. I'm off to work now but I promise to respond properly this evening.

  Nic'
• 

  unshackled

  Now, if you told me the same experience, I know I would feel skeptical because it's human nature to feel skeptical of something you didn't see or experience yourself.

  
  
  FlyingHighNow...thanks for expanding on that seance on experience. Wanted to hear about it, but Nicolau did the asking. (Didn't intend to abandon my thread...bad timing is all. Started on my Bday and went away for the weekend.)
  
  Your 3-year-old experience is easy to dismiss...way too young, IMO. But your seance experience is intriguing, actually enjoy hearing stories like that. But again, hard to believe it is true. Not suggesting you're being deceitful, but sometimes our memories, especially as children, can't be relied on. Imagination and embellishment is intrinsic to youth. As a child I had memories that I thought for sure we're unexplainable, felt that way into adulthood. But on further scrutiny realized I was selective in what I did remember, the embellishment. Not to mention ideas that I had already been predisposed to. Demons were very real and always on my mind as a child. I was sure I had experienced demons...and so did my friend. Ended up being all in our heads when examined.

  Anyways, that's why I requoted yourself above. Unless I was there, hard to believe it myself. Of course, that applies to all kinds of stories one might hear: UFO sightings, bigfoot, alien abduction, seen Elvis in a grocery store.

  But to get back on topic....I'm guessing you're saying that since the supernatural is very much real, if you had amnesia you'd stumble upon the same conclusion you are at now. And IF the supernatural is very much real, I'd have to agree with you. But there's that IF part....
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  Unshackled, you don't EVER forget an experience like that seance. And five adults remember the same experience. We may have been kids, but we saw what we saw. Nothing embellished. As I said, if it had been just the curtains and candle, I'd second guess it. But the flag part, there was no guess work there. It was just like me asking you to move that flag, not just once, but three times. The big difference is that I could see you move the flag.

  As I said, if I had never seen something like this happen or experienced this kind of communication and you came to me with such an experience, I'd find it harder to believe. Just about anyone would be skeptical of something otherworldy not seen by one self.
• 

  PublishingCult

  It was just like me asking you to move that flag, not just once, but three times. The big difference is that I could see you move the flag.

  I believe you saw what you and five others say you saw, however, I am wondering how and why you come to the conlusion that it must have been an intelligent unseen being, in other words what most define as a spirit? Would you agree that it might not have been a spirit or ghost, but perhaps could be explained by natural phenom instead of supernatural?
• 

  unshackled

  Just about anyone would be skeptical of something otherworldy not seen by one self.

  We agree on that. Just coming at it from different sides on your personal experience. Wonder though...how does your experience point to a god or creator? Seems like conclusion-first thinking.
• 

  nicolaou

  Dear FHN, others have made the points I was going to so I shan't just repeat what has already beeen said. I just reiterate that you did not actually see any beings, you saw objects move.

  No doubt it was a powerful experience and it clearly left a lasting memory on a young, impressionable mind.

  I just fail to see the connection between your observation of events and your explanation of them. There's nothing wrong in saying 'I don't know'. I cannot explain what you saw, however I can say that your account provides zero evidence of unseen, intelligent beings.

  Wishing you well,

  nic'
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  I just reiterate that you did not actually see any beings, you saw objects move.

  In a court of law, five identical eye witness accounts would be considered strong evidence. When it's five kids, impromptu, in a room with no smoke and mirrors and they ask a person to move a flag and the person moves the flag, not just once, but three times, that is evidence to the fact that the person understood and the person moved the flag. The only difference at all is that we could not see the person. So what this is here is five eye witnesses to an actual event that you do did not see, so your mind doesn't want to let you believe it. Human nature. That and you've got a strong, entrenched belief system set in place already. Someone like you needs to see this happen for yourself. Maybe you will, maybe you won't see something like this. If you do though, it will change the way you view life.