Christians — Eating Blood Sausage

by Marvin Shilmer 26 Replies latest jw friends

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    Christians — Eating Blood Sausage

    Today I uploaded a new article to my blog critiquing a proposition often made by the Watchtower organization that Christians do not eat products rendered from blood, such as blood sausage. Though Watchtower quotes historical documents on this point, it entirely looks over the more contemporary history of Jehovah’s Witnesses regarding eating of blood sausage.

    This article contains page scans from Margaret Buber’s 1949 book titled Under Two Dictatorships.

    My article is titled Christians — Eating Blood Sausage and it is available at: http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/04/christians-eating-blood-sausage.html

    Marvin Shilmer

    http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Another lie exposed ...

    Syl

  • FatFreek 2005
    FatFreek 2005

    I am by no means a jw apologist but I'd probably defend this alleged hypocritical statement by WT

    1. the ones who ate the blood sausage weren't true christians; the ones who didn't eat it were true christians.
    2. this illustrates how New Light was in its process of refining their thinking and their teachings. It wasn't (I think) till some 10 years later that taking blood into the body became a DF offense.

    Len

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    FatFreek 2005 writes:

    “I am by no means a jw apologist but I'd probably defend this alleged hypocritical statement by WT

    “1.the ones who ate the blood sausage weren't true christians; the ones who didn't eat it were true christians.”

    If that is the case then the huge majority of Jehovah’s Witnesses held in the Ravensbrueck concentration camp were not Christians.

    If, as Watchtower does when convenient, we are going to use the actions of individuals professing Christianity as a measure of Christian conduct then it does no good to promote the conduct of one professing Christian and discount the dissimilar conduct of another professing Christian.

    Marvin Shilmer

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    I would like to know the context of this quote:

    4. Lest anyone think this account by Buber is less than correct, “Her account is confirmed by Gertrude Poetzinger, one of Jehovah’s Witnesses who was a prisoner in Ravensbrueck for over four years and who serves today with her husband at the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Brooklyn, New York.”—The Watchtower, June 15, 1981 p. 7.

    It seems unlikely Gertrude Poetzinger would have agreed with Buber's account in all its details, for example Buber's claim that those who refused blood sausage were extremists who "thirsted for martyrdom".

    If there was some dispute among Witnesses in the concentration camp about eating food with blood in it then that is hardly surprising as the Watchtower's stance on blood was in its early stage of development at that time.

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    Slimboyfat writes:

    "It seems unlikely Gertrude Poetzinger would have agreed with Buber's account in all its details, for example Buber's claim that those who refused blood sausage were extremists who "thirsted for martyrdom"."

    Unseemly or not, she authenticated Buber's account.

    Slimboyfat writes:

    "If there was some dispute among Witnesses in the concentration camp about eating food with blood in it then that is hardly surprising as the Watchtower's stance on blood was in its early stage of development at that time."

    I think you are confusing Watchtower teaching against transfusion of blood with Watchtower teaching against eating of blood; the latter seriously predated the other. At least as early as 1926 Watchtower was teaching its members that eating blood was contrary to God’s will.

    Marvin Shilmer

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Unseemly or not, she authenticated Buber's account.

    In context, to what was the Watchtower referring when it stated Gertrude Poetzinger confirmed Buber's account: her entire account, the blood sausage passage, or some other detail?

    I think you are confusing Watchtower teaching against transfusion of blood with Watchtower teaching against eating of blood; the
    latter seriously predated the other. At least as early as 1926 Watchtower was teaching its members that eating blood was contrary to God’s will.

    Considering there were only brief mentions of the issue in the literature up to this point (in German also?) it is not difficult to understand why there might have been some disagreement among Witnesses in a concentration camp about what to do.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    It was talking about the account as a whole:

    During part of that time, she was a Block Senior, a prisoner in charge of a block or barracks of other prisoners. Most of those in her block were Jehovah’s Witnesses (Bible Students). Margarete Buber’s account provides eyewitness information from a political prisoner who was not herself one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Her account is confirmed by Gertrude Poetzinger, one of Jehovah’s Witnesses who was a prisoner in Ravensbrueck for over four years and who serves today with her husband at the world headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Brooklyn, New York. The following is a condensation of portions of the book, in Margarete Buber’s own words and used with her permission.

    There is of course a difference between confirming someone else's account and agreeing with all its details and viewpoints. As I mentioned, clearly Gertrude Poetzinger would not have agreed with Margarete Buber that Witnesses were "thirsting for martyrdom". In any case, apart from that interpretational gloss of Witness actions there seems little reason for Jehovah's Witnesses to dispute the account of the blood sausage incident.

  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer

    Slimboyfat writes:

    “It was talking about the account as a whole:

    “There is of course a difference between confirming someone else's account and agreeing with all its details and viewpoints. As I mentioned, clearly Gertrude Poetzinger would not have agreed with Margarete Buber that Witnesses were "thirsting for martyrdom". In any case, apart from that interpretational gloss of Witness actions there seems little reason for Jehovah's Witnesses to dispute the account of the blood sausage incident.”

    We have published material from a very contra-biased source (Watchtower) saying “[Buber’s] account is confirmed by Gertrude Poetzinger”. Poetzinger was very close to the Watchtower power center, being the then wife of a sitting governing body member. Poetzinger was actually in Ravensbrueck concentration camp as an eyewitness to what transpired among the Witness inmates. Poetzinger had also read the entirety of Buber's account, that is based on what she told me at the time.

    And then we have you, Slimboyfat, who writes “clearly Gertrude Poetzinger would not have agreed with Margarete Buber that Witnesses were ‘thirsting for martyrdom’”. Please tell us, Slimboyfat, just how do you know what the now deceased Gertrude Poetzinger would or would not have agreed to in relation to Buber’s account? Are you some kind of clairvoyant?

    Would you have readers accept what you transpose onto Poetzinger’s published statement? Or would you have readers accept what she actually said, and in particular given Watchtower’s bias running contrary to Buber’s observations about the Witnesses.

    Tell me this: have you actually read the entirety of Buber’s account addressing Witnesses held in Ravensbrueck that you know what Poetzinger was confirming? Or, are you speaking from ignorance of Buber’s account?

    Marvin Shilmer

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    You seriously think Gertrude Poetzinger believed Witnesses were "thirsting for martyrdom" in Ravensbrueck? What a stupid conversation.

    Yes I have a copy of Under Two Dictators and I have read it. If you have read much on the topic otherwise you will know that Jehovah's Witnesses do not describe their stance during the Third Reich as anything remotely approaching "thirsting for martyrdom".

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