dos it really matter if someone drinks the wine and eats the crackers??! (page 2)

Satanus

Sumfing about not being worthy and being condemned for eating and imbibing unworthily. Whatever worthiness is.

S

thetrueone

I always thought that the people who did eat the unleavened bread and drink the wine were well........crackers.

Think about the billions of Catholics that have done this over the centuries. !

There sure is going to alot pissed off disappointed people when they get to heaven,

there will most likely be hearing..... sorry we have 144,000 you'll have to take a number and wait in line.

rebel8

Only if you put Cheese Whiz on them first.

Mad Sweeney

1 Corinthians 11:27

Consequently whoever eats the loaf or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will be guilty respecting the body and the blood of the Lord.

therevealer

Notice how this translation says "without recognizing"

1 Corinthians 11:29 For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.

And notice how this sounds more like the witlesses than maybe anyone

Hebrews 10:29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

saltyoldlady

Godrutz - I'm speaking as a Christian to make JW's think. I am out of the place for real and for good. But I'm also trying to evaluate all the scriptural points to check out my own views and be positive they are correct.

I did note that the judgment one would incur if they partake "unworthily" was defined in verse 32 - and it is not everlasting destruction or death or having committed the unforgivable sin like we used to feel if we took part at the WTS meetings. It actually says it is a matter of "discipline." And the discipline has a purpose - that we not be condemned with the world.

My thoughts on the body is that it means we must discern the body of Christ which to my way of thinking is the group of true Christians - my take on that may be a bit influenced by years of WTS training but I have not been able to view any church group as "that body" - least of all the WTS itself - but I do meet individuals that impress me as being brothers of Christ - the true body of Christ. So my experience tells me discerning the body is looking for the fruits Christ said would result from following him. And that where there are two or three of his disciples He is there with us - that that would be all that is required for discerning the body. Do I have that right?

And being worthy would simply mean scrutinizing oneself for genuine belief in the ransom sacrifice of Christ and it's value - that we don't just partake in a casual manner but that we do so with humility and sincere godly devotion and repentence where we need to do so. All that kind of stuff?

But the establishment of a "covenant" for rulership, being a judge, priest, etc. - like the WTS puts it - I can understand that being the case with the apostles at the Last Supper but I can not understand that being the case for everybody that believes and puts faith in Jesus Christ and desires that everlasting life he provides. That we should have a covenant relationship with him and be called his brothers seems right to me but "heirs to a kingdom?" That is heavy stuff. And if I don't picture myself "ruling" then am I partaking unworthily? I don't think I have this ironed out. I feel called of the Spirit or born of the Spirit but I don't perceive it in the way the WTS does. Am I in error here? The Bible does say we are heirs - heirs of everlasting life sounds good - positions of responsibility - hmm - that is another matter. That I might administer healing via his instructions - I can see myself doing that and would find joy in that. That I would be judging - that doesn't fit well but I suppose if he tells us what and how - any of us can do it - just not now.

Anyway if the 144,000 were literal and it is only that administrative group that partakes and the WTS says they are strictly "first fruits" then that group got filled way back in the first century for sure and no one would be qualified today, period. So does one have to see himself as of that group to be partaking worthily? And I even have some serious questions as to whether the 144,000 are a literal number since other parts of that same scripture are not interpreted literally by the WTS.

And then when I read the words at John 6:53-54 - Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood you have no life in yourselves. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day..............makes it sound as though all true Christians who want to be in union with Christ and enjoy everlasting life would be partaking. Am I missing something here? The reasoning book indicates by passing the emblems they "figuratively" partake - maybe their resurrection is just "figurative" too? LOL Or has their updated version changed that? I've not seen the new one I heard has been issued.

I have to agree that I think pasing the emblems and refusing them surely resembles the Gnostic practice and could be grave error while at the same time we don't want to partake just because everyone else is doing so - it needs to be a sincere and serious deicision made upon much prayerful thought and communication with the Savior and contemplation of His Word. And it seems logical we need to dedicate our lives to Jesus Christ and His Father, Jehovah - never to an organization of men though. Suppose because WTS conceives of themselves as being the Body of Christ - the "only" true believers on Planet Earth - they think that dedication to the organization okay. But I could never bring myself to agree with that one myself besides the fact that they do not have "the truth" on ever so many items.

WontLeave

that group got filled way back in the first century for sure

This is assuming the JW teaching that all 1st-Century Christians were anointed. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said "Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth." If everybody there who accepted him had to go to Heaven, who was he talking to? The JWs telling God they were anointed, then closing the door in 1935, to later reopen it... That's some serious arrogance. We don't tell God whether we're anointed; he tells us.

godrulz

Thx salty for the reply. The 144,000 can be taken literally (the WT is wrong to make it literal, but the tribes figurative in the same context), but it refers to a future 7 year Tribulation period before Armageddon/Millennium/return of Christ (1914 was not an invisible return?!). They are Jewish Christians in a future period, not first century, 1935, etc.

So, bottom line, should an evangelical Christian partake at a JW Memorial? I was leaning away from doing it, but now I wonder. I will see what the parameters of the talk are (if they say it would be offensive for an outsider to do so, fine; if they say all who are born again can, that would be me, for sure).

Where are you at with your understanding of the trinity, Deity of Christ, physical resurrection of Christ, other churches, visible return of Christ to earth in the future, etc.? Which Bible version do you use (I notice you still use NWT phrases that are inaccurate).

Farkel

:dos it really matter if someone drinks the wine and eats the crackers??!

Well. Considering the problems facing the human condition, any God who cares more about symbols like wine and crackers than that God does about the non-symbols called genuine humans and the human condition is a worthless sack-of-shit for a God.

But, that is just my opinion.

Farkel, Non-crackers CLASS

lil princess

hell yeah, how are you going to get your swerve on for cheap?lets get at least 100 people to partake and see what the next announcement is. i am such an instigator.

dos it really matter if someone drinks the wine and eats the crackers??!

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