Heaven ( and "hell") may simply be parallel universes in different dimensions.
So that is where Islamic martyrs go to get their 72 virgins. Christians must join Jesus in a different one, I guess.
God \ Universe
by ballistic 46 Replies latest jw friends
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unshackled
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Satanus
All is 'god', but all of 'god' isn't in the universe. The 'god' of pantheism isn't holy ,and isn't set apart. Holy and pantheism are contradictions in terms. Holy and set apart are bible inventions. The bible and it's jewish creators are johnie come latelies.
The universe is merely on emenation, a lower one from 'god', something like a booger that you might emit. That's a lower human emenation. Life, the tiny motes of consciousness that we are, are higher emenations. Not sure if there is a human equivalent to this for use as an illustration.
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trevor
Some good points.
The difficulty arises when we try to nail god down and explain ‘god’ in human terms, as per bible and other holy books. I don’t see 'god' as person. The word ‘god’ has so many negative connotations attached to it that it needs replacing.
The universe is manifest. Before it existed it was un-manifest but the potential for it to be existed. Although as humans, only what is physical is real to us. Potential is not nothing in a universe where all that can exist is contained in it, potential becomes a factor. I see ‘god’ as the un-manifest potential from which the universe has emanated.
This is how I see things but I am willing to be straightened out by greater minds.
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streets76
Sometimes the world has a load of questions
Seems like the world knows nothing at all
The world is here but it's out of reach
Some people touch it...but they can't hold on.The world moves on a womans hips
The world moves and it swivels and bops
The world moves on a womans hips
The world moves and it bounces and hops--Talking Heads
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trevor
Wow! That's far out man...
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ballistic
I haven't had much time to comment, but I must admit that what poppers, Satanus and frankiespeakin have said has been bugging me all week. What you are basically saying is that our most basic logical premis about what life the universe and everything is, if taken at face value, is not what it seems and that we ourselves are part of another existance not bound by time or space, not just sentient beings, but just the manifestation of another conciousness - correct me if I am wrong. You mention in meditation you can attain this understanding. I must admit that I have a completely open mind to what you say being true, but how does one know that the meditative mind does not merely throw up illusions like out of body experiences and so on which aren't true? While I'm not a good meditator, I can... while deep in thought about these very things, for a fleeting second think what it is to be part of everything - everywhere but it's a very intense combination of feeling and thought that can't possibly last more than a second.
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VoidEater
There is much thought that leads to the notion that before space, there was no time. This merely means that before the existence of the universe as we know it, there was no time dimension to move through. As has been discussed at length on this board, timeless is just another context. We have as little context to understand timeless as do to understand existence without space dimensions.
As far as labeling something "God", you can make up anything you want and call it "God". That's all that's ever been done in the past anyway.
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Satanus
' just the manifestation of another conciousness'
I see it as not being very conscious, or smart. It's more like we are probes that is sending out to help it discover something or other - possibilities, maybe?
'how does one know that the meditative mind does not merely throw up illusions like out of body experiences and so on which aren't true?'
Of course, this cannot be proven, or guaranteed. However, it's good to learn the basic meditation, first, as it deals w detaching from a person's own stuff, so that it doesn't drift into meditations that are focussed on other things. Focused meditation is merely to SEE, and that's all. Basic meditation helps a person to detach and observe, become an observer of his own thought processes. It's a training for meditation on other things.
'While I'm not a good meditator, I can... while deep in thought about these very things, for a fleeting second think what it is to be part of everything - everywhere but it's a very intense combination of feeling and thought that can't possibly last more than a second.'
Yup, it ain't easy. At times, i have used a puff or two of the magic dragon, er, mary jane. It seems to act as a booster. It seems to let a person relax and become a lot more flexible. I need to strictly control how much, though. Too much and a person could lose it. It's like rocket fuel, in a way. I set my goal/target before i imbibe. Without it, it takes a lot more concerted effort. Most people that i have talked to about using it for meditation have warned against it. However, i saw a program about india, where the students of some gurus freely used it in large amounts. So, i think it's a matter of taste, or fad, or wanting to be legal or respectable.
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Satanus
Another thing about using mj. If you are a new user, and you have some suppressed stuff inside you, it could trigger a release, which could be traumatic. It could cause severe panic that could last for hours. I have seen this in 2 cases. Just a thought.
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frankiespeakin
Ballistic,
You learn not to take every experience as true fact but look for the meaning in the visions and inner experiences,, the unconscious needs to be explored with care through various techniques,, Jung's favorite was using an active imagination,, I think he came upon this idea from the writings of a christian mystic,, he felt by the way that severe asceticism was unnecessary waste of time.