Truth - How obvious does it need to be?

by Nickolas 55 Replies latest jw friends

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    Hey folks. I've been on this board for just under seven months and I thank all of you who have contributed so generously to my education on things Watchtower, and quite a few other things too. Not all of it was on here but it was through this board I've been directed to sites like freeminds and jwfacts. I think it was OnTheWayOut who recommended a few books to me, including Combatting Cult Mind Control by Hassan and Captives of a Concept by Cameron. I read Hassan a few months ago and I'm halfway through Captives and wonder how much more convinced I'm going to be in the months ahead that the Watchtower, to put it mildly, is not what it represents itself to be.

    The Society says that it represents Truth. In secular Western society there is only one test for truth, and that is evidence. When society is offended by something someone has done, it seeks redress from that person and quite often the accused person proclaims his innocence. Society gives the accused the benefit of the doubt but nevertheless seeks the truth through evidence. Same goes for scientific theories. They are also subject to scrutiny based on the evidence in support or not in support of the theory. It all comes down to evidence.

    I haven't even got to reading Crisis of Conscience yet (on its way from freeminds.org) but the evidence I have already seen weighted against the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is more than a little compelling. It's damning. And most of it isn't even new evidence. I was totally ignorant of all these things when I started studying with the Witnesses in 1974 and it was the failure of 1975 that got my attention and precipitated my adios in 1976. But had I known half of the stuff I know now I wouldn't have come near the Witnesses in the first place. But it also leaves me just a little incredulous that intelligent people who are not otherwise blackmailed by the threat of disfellowshipping and shunning stay in. The only reason could be the Society simply forbids their membership either from seeing the evidence in a logical light or from seeing it at all. I don't know which is scarier.

    People who are not yet baptised are visiting this board, in addition to many who are baptised. Maybe there are those who are considering getting involved with the Watchtower, but I haven't met any of those. Regardless, those who are not yet convinced that fleeing from the Watchtower is the right thing to do maybe just haven't seen enough evidence. There's no shortage.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    The Society says that it represents Truth. In secular Western society there is only one test for truth, and that is evidence.

    This is debatable isn't it? Many "westerners" believe wholeheartedly in, and staunchly defend, fanciful myths and legends without a shred of evidence.

    -Sab

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    Interesting advertising links to this board ... I wonder what my Witness wife would think if she walked in right now

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    This is debatable isn't it? Many "westerners" believe wholeheartedly in, and staunchly defend, fanciful myths and legends without a shred of evidence.

    Not if it is secular, sab. Society is the sum of it members, not its members themselves. And it is set up according to sets of laws and rules, like a constitution, forged by secularists. Most secular western societies separate state from religion and it is the state that determines what is true and what is not. It is when secular society is infected by religious beliefs, such as what we see happening in some places, that truth without evidence takes on any kind of credibility.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Interesting advertising links to this board ... I wonder what my Witness wife would think if she walked in right now

    I remember at an assembly not more than 5 years ago I heard a Circuit Overseer say these words on the podium to 1,000 people (have to paraphrase them):

    "A word to the females here that are dressed provocatively: you are making the men sin in their thoughts."

    -Sab

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    yeah, and this one's even wearing a crucifix. Wow. A hottie who's maybe also an apostate.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Not if it is secular, sab. Society is the sum of it members, not its members themselves. And it is set up according to sets of laws and rules, like a constitution, forged by secularists. Most secular western societies separate state from religion and it is the state that determines what is true and what is not. It is when secular society is infected by religious beliefs, such as what we see happening some places, that truth without evidence takes on any kind of credibility.

    I believe you are inadvertently talking about censorship which is not a tenant of Western Civilization. The "secular rules", in regards to what one can believe, that you are referring to don't exist and rightly shouldn't within a free society. And not to ignore that "secular society" infects religion, and subsequently individual spirituality, as well.

    -Sab

  • pirata
    pirata

    It does not matter how obvious it is if you are not prepared to accept the possibility that you are wrong.

    Highly recommend adding the book Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts. A good summary (and application) of cognitive dissonance theory. It's also a good book to discuss with a JW because it doesn't touch on religious issues. Has a nice application to marriage to, and understand how we justify our beliefs can either strengthen it or destroy it.

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    What you're trying to argue about is not clear, sab. What I'm talking about is not rules telling you what you can believe and it certainly is not about censorship (except maybe a reference to how the Watchtower censors information from getting to its membership). I'm talking about evidence leading to a conclusion of truth much like truth is determined in a court of law. I'm talking about the prepoderance of evidence in existence against the Watchtower and how difficult it is to come to any other conclusion that it is not what it says it is.

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    Thank you, pirata. Coming to be familiar with Cognitive Dissonance theory is another contribution of this board.

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