On that island the "results" comes down to SURVIVING.
Splintering into waring groups is not surviving, Terry.
-Sab
Does your personal NEED or WEAKNESS give you the right to demand?
by Terry 43 Replies latest watchtower bible
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sabastious
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WontLeave
Socialism is like Wile E. Coyote's ideas. They all work great on paper, but fail in the real world. Rabid socialists are all still in the planning stages and can't see past their idealized outcome, to reality. However, they are painfully aware of every misstep perpetrated under the guise of "free enterprise". Socialism has a long history of using propaganda and this is why they love to spin examples of "capitalism" failures. They point to bailouts, embezzlement, lobbying, corporate welfare, and all sorts of illegal activity which are anything but capitalism.
Recently, I watched Michael Moore's Capitalism - A Love Story. He actually uses Enron and bank improprieties, where people went to prison as examples of "capitalism". So, in his mind, illegal activity is capitalism. So, if I break into my neighbor's house and steal his TV, Michael Moore would use that as an example of capitalism. This is how determined socialists are to reject capitalism, so why even talk to them? It's a waste of time and it's all academic, because the vast majority of people who want socialism are people who can't compete or are self-loathing because they feel like they were "lucky". You're trying to intellectualize an emotional argument and those kind of arguments can't be won.
Over and over, unions refuse to admit the company they're picketing can't afford their demands, and they'll end up putting the place out of business rather than lose the argument. Then, everybody is out of work and there are fewer jobs to go around. But, hey... They won, right? They're determined to prove you wrong and facts will not get in their way. Just pray they live in another country or don't vote, so their views will have a lesser effect on you.
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White Dove
Wow, moms tend to their children?
That's a new thought for me.
My sister and I always tended to our mom and were beat with a belt if we forgot something, like doing the dishes or taking out the trash, as kids are prone to getting distracted.
We began to feel resentful for it in childhood.
Looking back, it was a righteous resentment.
Now, Mom's alone as she has estranged everyone from her because of her narcissistic and histrionic Nazi ways.
Estrangement is the result if such issues aren't resolved.
Can be strangers in a group or it can be family.
Blood bonds are only so strong.
There is a breaking point.
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hybridous
And you wonder why the cost of gas is so high?
It can't help but be high. The Government itself has a profit motive. To rely on this institution to meet our needs is insane. It has its own needs...it's own agenda. The profit motive of Government actively works against the people (who presumably want less expensive energy).
This monopoly on violence (a.k.a Government) does more harm than good...
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White Dove
Well, this is what I get for not reading the posts and just answering the question in the title box.
Oh, well.
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Terry
On that island the "results" comes down to SURVIVING.
Splintering into waring groups is not surviving, Terry.
-Sab
Sebastious,
I recently read your Topic on how you'd changed your mind about Organized Religion. In it you made some really insightful comparisons.
Let's read those words and your insights and then come back to THIS topic and see if we can't join the two together.
You posted:
Organized religion's are just large dysfunctional groups. My family is a smaller dysfunctional group and I worked for a business that was also just a small dysfunctional group. I can make logical comparisons between all three experiences because they are all group dynamics. Let's call them "Circles".
Circle of Spirituality
Circle of Family
Circle of EmploymentWhat do all these have in common? They make up large parts of everyone's life by consuming the most time. People, by nature, are survivalists; [1] some will choose to obtain survival on the backs of people within their Circles [2] while others will find means to coexist.
Both means of survival can end in termination. [1] The man that attempts to control his peers has the chance of being overpowered by them. [2]The man that attempts to coexist might do so at the expense of himself.
Sebastious, would it be too great a stretch to think the desert island group is simply the same dynamic as above, which I personally
feel is a survival situation in which OBTAINING SURVIVAL ON THE BACKS OF PEOPLE WITHIN THEIR CIRCLES is a strategy?
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caliber
A family society differs from an artificial gathering of strangers. Familial ties over time create bonds which over-ride mere convenience.
CHOOSES whom to love, tolerate, assist, enable according to our own decisions
One is less apt to "resent" our Mom laying about after a lifetime of nursing us, educating us, tending to us.
The point is that each of usA parasite doesn't self-sustain. A parasite lives off the self-sustaining efforts of OTHERS
But, if your support is mandated by a central authority with the power to punish you if you don't----this becomes a kind of indentured servitude.
Freedom vanishes and compulsory service destroys the idealTerry I think you have made many valid observations, and identified situations that are unfair for the able, willing and strong.
But how to change it.... what of those who were producers but have through accident or disease become parasites ? At some point some
moral judgments must be made by society. Is not the island survivor situation just too simple.. in a complex world ?
What of the children, the handicapped and the old ? Please I don't mean to draw negative comparison to you.. but Hitler
had much to say about the parasites in society .. it lead to his final solution idea.
Does not living in a centralized society automatically strip someone of total fairness ?
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SixofNine
I think you have made many valid observations, and identified situations that are unfair for the able, willing and strong.
lol. We'll be ok. After all, we're able, willing, and strong. Any minor unfairness is easily (and happily) trumped by those considerations.
But to everyone else, thanks for playing ;)
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PSacramento
Its a very intense question Terry,
The truth is that there is NO reason for the string to tolerate the weak, none whatsoever, UNLESS there is some benefit for them to do so.
And in the island scenario, that would be the same situation.
The weak would be tolerated IF they served some sort of function for the strong ( sexual, cannon fodder, bait, whatever).
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Terry
Terry I think you have made many valid observations, and identified situations that are unfair for the able, willing and strong.
But how to change it.... what of those who were producers but have through accident or disease become parasites ? At some point some
moral judgments must be made by society. Is not the island survivor situation just too simple.. in a complex world ?
What of the children, the handicapped and the old ? Please I don't mean to draw negative comparison to you.. but Hitler
had much to say about the parasites in society .. it lead to his final solution idea.
Does not living in a centralized society automatically strip someone of total fairness ?
The person who produces creates a network of supporting and sustaining infrastructure. This is how charities are born. The "rich" are fabulous givers to charitable causes. All without the direct command of Central Authority such as Government.
The purchase of catastrophic insurance, for example, prepares a family for the onset of debilitating illness.
Pre-paid burial plans unburden family members.
The point at which we participate in HELPING OTHERS is not a matter of DEMAND by Government when it is effectively carried out.
HELPING OTHERS is the direct result of having a plan for life and its exigencies. The difference between having a dream and having a career is PLANNING.
Poor, uneducated people usually get that way because their families did not plan, save or understand how life really works.
How many inner city familes are enmired in poverty simply because the father is absent and the mother is so overburdened trying to support her children so that the kids end up running in gangs? How many minorities look down on a good education as being "white"?
What goals seem attractive in underprivileged areas other than dealing drugs, prostitution, fame and glory as a rapper or athelete?
Is this stereotyping or is there reality to the status quo?
I don't have all the answers. But, I do have a 401K, insurance, savings and all my kids education is paid for in advance. They also have stocks.
I came out of a family who income for the year never exceeded ten thousand dollars. While I was JW my family lived in poverty. I depended on loans, Pawn Shops and outwitting creditors. After I left JW's I learned a whole other world of personal responsibility.
Our life is largely the result of what we DO and not what we HOPE. Not what we demand others do FOR us.