I hate to see the boy excluded, but I do have one question:
Why didn't the mother talk to the priest before the last moment - she says she was preparing for this for months.
Boy Denied Communion Because of Cerebral Palsy
by whereami 26 Replies latest jw friends
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lovelylil
Scully said;
To me, it is an issue of the capacity to consent. Legally speaking, some mentally challenged persons do not have the capacity to consent, because they do not comprehend the implied contracts involved in things like taking out a loan at the bank, engaging in sexual activity, and committing to a belief system (to name a few) - all things whereby the person would be at high risk of being taken advantage of by persons who do not have their best interests at heart, but who are seeking their own advantage over someone who will never be their equal. That's why I feel it is unethical, even in cases where the individual wishes to (or is encouraged by their relatives to) submit to these activities.
I can see your point on that and I can also agree that someone could be taken advantage of in this kids situation. But as a member of a Christian faith community, I can understand how the family feels too. And the poor kid who just wants to belong. I guess I am not as concerned with the consent issue in this case, as I would be if a cult was involved like the jw's or mormons. That is why I have a different view then you. Your view really is all about the legal ramifications and mine are about the faith ramifications. But I am glad you clarified this because I will agree that this is a very valid point that you have raised. And perhaps this is why the Catholic church has taken the position it has.
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james_woods
And perhaps this is why the Catholic church has taken the position it has.
Maybe it is not the whole Catholic church - could it be just this one priest?
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Scully
james:
Maybe it is not the whole Catholic church - could it be just this one priest?
Maybe "just this one priest" was able to evaluate the child's ability/capacity to receive communion better than other priests who didn't know him or his family personally??
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james_woods
Maybe "just this one priest" was able to evaluate the child's ability/capacity to receive communion better than other priests who didn't know him or his family personally??
That was actually what I meant, Scully. My point was that perhaps we should be a little cautious in blaming or condemning the whole Catholic Church for the situation.
I also kind of had the vague impression that the boy's mom has an axe to grind with this.
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lovelylil
I can agree on that with you James. I was wondering WHY she went so fast to the media about this?
I still think the church or priest should reverse the decision because niether the Catholic church nor many of the other mainstream ones hold kids to the same standards as the WT does anyway. It is the WT that treats kids like adults. They will even disfellowship a teenager. A communion is not really a big deal it is not a commitment other than saying you wish to join a faith community.
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james_woods
A communion is not really a big deal it is not a commitment other than saying you wish to join a faith community.
Operative word being "you" - which is not necessarily the same thing as what your mother wants. If this kid is cognizant and able and willing to participate in the ritual, then so be it. If that is the case, then the decision should be reversed and he should be allowed to take part.
I really cannot imagine the priest did this out of some sort of prejudice for the disabled - I would guess he honestly thought the kid was not mentally able to perceive what he was doing (being coached by rote from the mother, perhaps) and was not comfortable with the situation. The Catholics, from what I can observe, are very unlikely and unwilling to deny communion to any of their members.
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rebel8
I think it's good to publicize these things. Maybe it will help people wake up.
Why did they let him go through prep if he wasn't eligible? Mean.
If Christ were real, surely a church couldn't stand between a person and him. It simply wouldn't be possible to have that amount of control over an omnipotent god (and his son, depending upon your position on the Trinity). So the mom can pursue other means for her son to commune with Christ.
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lovelylil
James,
You could be right. That is why I said maybe the priest made his decision based upon the same thoughts that scully had too. I am viewing it merely as a faith issue. They could very well have broken the rules for once if indeed they were sparing the young child's feelings. The article said they don't really know what the boy understands. I just think common sense was not used here, not even by the mother. I personally would not put my kid's business out there in the papers like that. It was a church issue and she should have kept it that way. Perhaps she rushed to the papers because she did have an axe to grind?
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Band on the Run
I have a strong feeling this priest caught hell, particularly, with the press attention. It does not make for good marketing. There is a big difference between mainstream infant baptism and JW dedication. What competence do infants have? Yet we baptize them and say as a congregation that we will help them keep their baptismal promises. JW is very different. It is an adult decision, very cerebral. B/c of my background I go nuts reading Bible studies but I don't feel it has much to do with my Christian faith. I'm worse than a cockroach compared to God. Paul writes of God's grace triumphing over law.
I'm certain that R C canon law contains provisions that affirm and condemn the priest's actions. What would Jesus do? A very important person said to me and to others who did church work, that God can take it. God can more than take a mentally challenged boy not knowing every detail of his catechism. Were it not for my experience, multiplied by others, I'd say the priest was ill-informed and did not have time to think through the situation.
Think of Mother Theresa, Sisters of Charity, the peace activists. Civil rights workers. A gf once said that the ignorance of the average parish priest could not be overestimated. I love formal things but sometimes formality can interfere with God's love. Maybe the boy is the one Jesus prefers. How do we know God's judgments?
God, I worship intellligence and education but they are puny compared to what might be inside that boy that we cannot apprehend b/c we are merely human.