by StandFirm 125 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Just reading this thread for the first time...
Has anyone noticed that StandFirm has:
- started 2 topics, for a total of 8 pages so far
- yet, StandFirm has made ONLY 6 total posts. Only 1 on this thread alone.
Seems to me we're talking to ourselves here...or overfeeding a troll.
Unshackled..
Eventually S/F will be by to dismiss any facts and probably start a new thread..
Same old same old..
.....................;-)...OUTLAW
Outlaw....perhaps, just don't see the point in taking the bait. Though now I see why this thread is up to 4 pages....Maze/Alice made an appearance.
SF just made a couple more posts in the last few mins.
Association with a person does not just include face to face, verbal communication. It can include sign language, phone calls, or discussions on blogs. No doubt you are aware that association with disfellowshipped people is a disfellowshipping offence, referred to as loose or brazen conduct.
“Brazen conduct, loose conduct: ”
“an insolent, contemptuous attitude made evident by a practice of these things: ... unnecessary association with disfellowshipped nonrelatives” Shepherd the Flock of God pp.60,61
Please, by all means keep posting. Tell all your friends. Let them decide. Oh, here's a slap in the face. Russell got all his "enlightenment" about 1914 from Barbour, an individual who by today's JW standards would have been DF'd in a heartbeat. Makes you feel all warm & fuzzy knowing this was all started by an apostate. No need to thank the rest of us. Just doin our bit to help.
Don't take any noyice of those quotes, StandFirm. They came from apostates, so they don't need to be read or understood by Jehovah's Witnesses.
Carry on the Good Work.
Waves to Maze/mAlice/Spade/Racheal/Confearacy. Nice to see you back. Is it too boring at the Chron? Weren't they giving you enough love? Have you got any new Bible Studies started?
Chris
S/F when dealing with WT doctrine you have to look at it from different angles. There's the WT view of a particular situation and then there's the reality. When they talk about how pedophiles lure children, pornography, or misleading blogs and websites, these are all fear tactics used to get you to forget about the wealth of information the internet has. If they keep you from getting on the racetrack by talking about all the accidents that Nascar racers have experienced then you will never race and therefore never win a race. The very idea that anybody who has left the dubs is some disgruntled person looking to take some dubs down with them is absolute bulls--t. If you and I were both dubs and while we were in we did things like play pool or bowl, or come to each others barbeques, then I leave, the JW view is that from this point on I'm a tool of Satan and will only led you out of the truth if you continue to hang with me. The reality is: your faith is really weak if something I do leads you out. The ol' boys up in Brooklyn know this. Person A hanging around person B doesn't mean that person A will adopt person B's behavior. My aunt's eating habits are different from mine. I'm not a healthy eater and she is not a junkfood king. She wears dresses, I do not. What I wear doesn't affect her clothing choices anymore than hers affects my clothing choices. It is groupthink mentality. Oftentimes they don't say irrefutably that something WILL happen when it comes to our entertainment and social adventures. They say what "may" happen, or "it's possible that...." This is for a reason. It's not claiming undeniably yet at the same time it's not negating it's possiblity. "You WILL go to a party and be lured into drug abuse, alcohol abuse and even fornication...." is different from "You MAY go to a party and be lured into...." yet your mind still pictures it happening because of the negative, myopic and bad catagory words that follow "drug abuse (bad) alcohol abuse (bad) fornication (bad)" You would have an even greater chance of going to a party, having a nice time socializing and coming home than you would being lured into drugs, alcohol and sex. Or maybe dubs wouldn't because they're so susceptible to powers of suggestion that any wind will blow them away. After all, it was a wind that blew them in the truth so why couldn't that same wind blow them out? The ancients up in Brooklyn know this as well. So anything that they tell you about what could happen, what jerkovah wants and doesn't want, what Satan wants is all, at it's core, just a way to protect their investment. And I got news for you S/F: You are NOT their investment. This isn't about protecting YOU. It's about protecting THEM, their lifestyle of using YOU. Because as long as there's a dub who does what they tell them to under the guise of being spirit directed, as long as there's a dub who doesn't think critically about what he/she is supposedly learning, as long as there's a dub who denies this critical thought and refuses to question because of some deity who is SUPPOSEDLY walking about like a roaring lion seeking to devour someone, then their publishing company, the lifestyles of the upper epsilon are safe. What kind of battery are you?
So the first quote referenced is the 7/15/2011 Watchtower quote which reads:
"What is involved in avoiding false teachers? We do not receive them into our homes or greet them. We also refuse to read their literature, watch TV programs that feature them, examine their Web sites, or add our comments to their blogs."
Here's the way I see internet forums. If I was in a public place - say, doing street witnessing - and a person approached me and challenged me on some issue then and there - perhaps he is DF'ed, or DA'ed, or inactive, or never-JW, we don't know - and some people are watching, I would have two options. I could (1) ignore him, or (2) refute his claims. I would choose option 2 for the benefit of the onlookers, and to hone my ability to answer claims made about my faith. (1 Peter 3:15.)
JWN may in general lean toward apostasy, it may be mostly apostates here, yet it purports to be "The place to discuss anything relating to Jehovah's Witnesses and the WatchTower Bible and Tract Society... or just make new friends!" No restriction on JW defenders. It isn't like, say, the Yuku Ex-Jehovah's Witness Forum. It doesn't claim to be an apostate website. Nor is it a blog where adding a comment would be like going to an apostate's home to talk to him about his ideas.
The Watchtower could easily have said, 'What is involved in avoiding false teachers? We do not receive them into our homes or greet them. We also refuse to read their literature, watch TV programs that feature them, examine their Web sites, add our comments to their blogs, or participate on forums where they are present.' But they didn't. That, to me, is significant.
From page 1:
isaacaustin suggests I tell my elders I post here. Why would I do that? It is websites like this that claim that Witnesses must run to their elders to make their decisions for them. I, however, can make conscientious decisions for myself.
sleepingbeauty: Is this an apostate website? Then why am I allowed to post here?
From page 2:
LostGeneration: I don't think refuting apostates constitutes following them.
palmtree67: Okay, when does "advise" constitute a command?
AnnOMaly references a quote from the 2006 Watchtower. Does JWN constitute an apostate website? It is overrun with apostates, yes, but it is an open forum after all.
From page 3:
pirata gives us several quotes. First is the simplified Watchtower of 7/15/2011. But the regular magazine makes clear that the reference is to blogs. As I mentioned, this site is more of a public discussion (forum) then a private conversation.
As for the September Kingdom Ministry, this website is not what is described there. The July Kingdom Ministry of the same month is referring to socializing, which is not my intent here. The article also does not forbid associating with persons over the internet, it simply says that there are dangers and that it is dangerous for children.
The September 2002 Kingdom Ministry does not mention forums. If the reference is to my blog, you can see that paragraph 6 is talking about information for the public. My blog is not for the public in general.
leapofthefrog: I've already seen the apostate arguments, so it's too late for that advice.
Mickey mouse: I've seen dumber subjects debated.
serenitynow!: You all are not more up to date than me. I looked at the 7/15/2011 Watchtower the day it was released in PDF at jw.org.
From page 4:
jwfacts: Refuting publicly made claims is not the same as associating. I associate with my friends, I teach in the field ministry. Both involve interaction with other people but they are not the same.
Concluding this post:
"Andre, who had served Jehovah for years, had the bitter experience of being led astray by apostate thinking. He felt that having a quick look at an apostate Web site would not be dangerous. He recalls: “Initially, I was attracted to the so-called truths that the apostates spoke of. The more I examined what they said, the more I came to think that I was justified in leaving Jehovah’s organization. But later, as I did some research on the apostates’ arguments against Jehovah’s Witnesses, I became aware of how crafty the false teachers were. Information taken out of context was their ‘strong evidence’ against us. Thus, I decided to start reading our publications again and to attend the meetings. Soon I realized how much I had missed.” Happily, Andre returned to the congregation." -p. 19
I see this to mean that those who are already exposed to apostate arguments who do honest research on them will see them to be false. If one has already researched them then surely refuting those who present them presents no harm.
Okay....
Nice try Standfirm....
You still get caught up with associating/conversing/engaging with DFd or DAd...since you aint an Elder it really don't fly well if you ever get caught (that all said we gots elders, ms, former gilead grads, BS4SB (formerly MTS) grads, CO or two, Bethelites and pretty much every ranking of lower than GB JW lurking or posting)
I know you want to make excuses but just stop......
You are posting on the internet because it doesn't violate your conscience. Even if Gerrit Losch told you directly not to do it you would justify doing so using
*** w075/1p.31QuestionsFromReaders***
However, genuine anointed Christians do not demand special attention. They do not believe that their being of the anointed gives them special "insights," beyond what even some experienced members of the great crowd may have. They do not believe that they necessarily have more holy spirit than their companions of the other sheep have; nor do they expect special treatment
Just saying, own your choice to be active on the internet......don't dilly dally
yknot: Can you name these "elders, ms, former gilead grads, BS4SB (formerly MTS) grads, CO or two, Bethelites"? I don't know of any on this board (except maybe an elder or two).
