Are the Gospel Stories Fictional?

by JosephAlward 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

JosephAlward

There is abundant evidence that Mark’s stories are fictional. In this post, I will explain how Mark’s story of Jesus’ miraculous feeding of the five thousand (Mark 6:32-42) was copied from Scripture.
At the beginning of his story, Mark wants his readers to believe that his Jesus is just as compassionate as the Lord, so he introduces him as a person who was just as concerned as the Lord is for people who are like sheep without a shepherd. Here are the parallel passages:
I will place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd. (Ezekiel 34:23)...May the LORD…appoint a man…so the LORD's people will not be like sheep without a shepherd. (Numbers 27:16-17)

Jesus ...had compassion on them, because they were like sheep without a shepherd. (Mark 6:34)

Now that Mark’s readers know that Jesus is just as kind as the sheep-shepherding Lord, Mark next has Jesus be even better the divine figure, Elisha, who miraculously multiplied food.
Just as Elisha’s servant objects when told to feed one hundred people with little food, so does Mark have Jesus’ disciples object when Jesus tells them to feed five thousand with little food. Here are the parallel pages:

"Give it to the people to eat," Elisha said. "How can I set this before a hundred men?" his servant asked. (2 Kings 4:42-43)

"You give them something to eat." They said to him, "That would take eight months of a man's wages! Are we to go and spend that much on bread and give it to them to eat?" (Mark 6:37)

Scripture says that the people are the Lord’s sheep who he has lie down on green pastures. Mark wants his readers to know that his Jesus is just as concerned for the comfort of his sheep as is the Lord, so just as the Lord has his sheep lie down on the grass, Mark has Jesus do the same thing:
The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want. He makes me lie down in green pastures (Psalm 23:1-2)

Jesus directed them to have all the people sit down in groups on the green grass (Mark 6:39)
Finally, just as Elisha miraculously caused all of the people to be fed on almost no food and still had food left over, so did Jesus feed the five thousand on almost no food, with food left over:
Then [Elisha] set it before them, and they ate and had some left over. (2 Kings 4:43-44)
[quote]Then [Jesus]...divided the two fish among them all... They all ate and were satisfied... and the disciples picked up twelve basketfuls [of leftover food]. (Mark 6:41-45)
It should be obvious to all but those who operate at the “if the Bible said it, I believe it” level of idiot-fundamentalism that Mark’s story of the miraculous feeding is probably completely fictional.
A fuller exposition of the miraculous feeding stories is found in the article, “Loaves and Fishes” on the web page shown in the signature below.
Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html
Mr Rocky

What better proof that Jesus was the promised Messiah than to do the same things as the prophets of old. To the Jews this would be exactly what they would expect of him. What has to be proven is whether Jesus did these miracles or not. Your points offer no proof of this or anything else!
Rocky
pseudoxristos

With a little basic background and a small amount of skepticism, how can anyone not wonder if the Gospels are fictional?
willy_think

One of the primary purposes of all four gospels is to show us how Jesus fulfills the prophesies of the OT. You find parallels in the OT for almost everything Jesus did in the gospels, after all that is one of the reasons they there were written for.
The Great and Powerful Oz:
pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
JosephAlward

Some Bible-believers think that the apparent fulfillment in Jesus of Scriptural events proves that Jesus is the son of God, but this uncritical acceptance of the claims of the gospel writers is what they were counting on when they used Scripture as a kind of blueprint in constructing the savior.
For centuries the Hebrews had been awaiting their savior, and there arose during this time many candidates for the position. The gospel writers knew that no one would accept as savior someone who did not seem to fulfill those "prophesies," so they scoured the Bible in an attempt to find as many of them as they could, then they wrote stories which had their candidate, "Jesus," fulfilling the prophesies. However, one of them, Matthew, was particularly inept in his construction of the fulfillment stories.
One example of Matthew's bumbling is found in his story of Jesus' triumphal entry into Jerusalem. Matthew bases this fictional story on a misunderstood story in Scripture. In that story, the prophet speaks of a king riding a donkey--a colt (a young male donkey), the foal of a donkey:
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout in triumph, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your king is coming to you; He is just and endowed with salvation, Humble, and mounted on a donkey, Even on a colt, the foal of a donkey. (Zechariah 9:9 NASB)
Obviously, Zechariah didn’t mean that the king was riding a donkey and a colt; he was merely telling us that the donkey was a colt foal (young son) of a donkey.
Unfortunately for Matthew, he thinks the prophet meant that there were two animals: a donkey, and a colt, instead of just a donkey which was a young colt. Thus, Matthew invents a story in which Jesus sends his disciples to fetch an ass and a colt, so that Jesus might ride on them into Jerusalem. The other gospel writers weren't so foolish. Here is the evidence.
Matthew: Jesus Sent for an Ass and a Colt
And …then sent Jesus two disciples, Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me… All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass. (Matthew 21:1-5)

Mark, Luke, and John, understood Zechariah; according to them, Jesus sent his disciples after only one animal. Mark and Luke call the animal a "colt," and John calls it an "ass," and all three versions are compatible with the "prophesy" in Zechariah, wherein the animal is described as a donkey which is a colt.
Mark: Jesus Sent for a Colt
And …he sendeth forth two of his disciples, And saith unto them, Go your way into the village over against you: and as soon as ye be entered into it, ye shall find a colt tied, whereon never man sat; loose him, and bring him…And they brought the colt to Jesus, and cast their garments on him; and he sat upon him. (Mark 11:1-7)
Luke: Jesus Sent for a Colt
Go ye into the village over against you; in the which at your entering ye shall find a colt tied, whereon yet never man sat: loose him, and bring him hither. …35 And they brought him to Jesus: and they cast their garments upon the colt, and they set Jesus thereon. (Luke 19:30-35)
John: Jesus Sent for an Ass
And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written, Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt. (John 12: 14-15)
The conclusion is inescapable: Matthew thought Zechariah was referring to two animals, but it is obvious that Zechariah was referring to just one animal. Thus, Matthew was mistaken, and his error is compounded by the fact that the fictional story he created was based on this error.
Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html
pomegranate

willy_think
ElijahTheThird

I marvel at those that can't see that this whole universe has been engineered.
rem

Engineered? For what? The existence of rocks? If this universe was created for humans, then it's one collosal waste of space. And even on this earth, humans anre not optimized for most climates. We have to build structures and wear clothes to survive. The universe is and most parts of the earth is an inhospitable place for human life (not to mention life in general).
So far as we know, life is just a thin film on this lonely planet. I certainly don't see design in this universe - especially design for human life. So far it looks like humans have evolved and thrived in spite of this dangerous place. And someday we will go the way of the dodo, er, the Neanderthal.
rem
"We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." - Mark Twain
RWC

Joseph, this is one of the most unbelievable posts you have made. Actually I have seen you make it before but it is no better this time around. You start from a false premise that the Gospels are fictional and then try to make a point that supports it. The Gospels say that Jesus walked and ate to, just like people in the old testamant. Did they copy that too?
The truth of the matter is that Jesus was rejected by the jewish people in part because he was not the Messiah they were looking for. He was just the opposite. He preached peace and love for your enemies. They were looking for a Messiah to overturn the Roman control over the Jewish people. Picking a few incidents from the old testament to copy would not change their mind. That is not why the Gospels included these references. They were included because they happened.
JosephAlward

The evidence that Matthew misunderstood the donkey-colt story in Zechariah has been carefully laid out: Matthew had Jesus have an ass and a colt fetched because he thought Zechariah was referring to two animals--a donkey and a colt. Mark, Luke, and John only had Jesus fetch one animal. Rather than just claim that there is no contradiction, apologists need to explain what it is they think they see in Matthew's words which shows that Matthew did not think that Zechariah was speaking of two animals, and why Mark, Luke, and John only had Jesus have one animal fetched, not two. Until the apologist does this, his claim that there is no error in Matthew will probably be ignored by all but those who would rather die than admit Bible error.
Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"
* http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

Are the Gospel Stories Fictional?

Share this