JWs and the Family Unit - Calling Maze to defend assertions

by Retrovirus 61 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  palmtree67

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/social/family/196218/1/My-letter-to-my-aunt

  An exerpt:

  It's worse for a women over 50 to sleep around and become callous and desensitized. There's no one that thinks you have any practical value as a family member. More like hollow and emotionally deficient. I'm back at the meetings and getting involved with a real family (the Christian congregation). As long as your grossly immoral I'll just write you off as bad association and of no use to me.

  Please explain how this part proves the JW's value the family unit?

  We'll leave "drama and dysfunction" aside for now.....
• 

  palmtree67

  double-post, new computer.....
• 

  Maze

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/social/family/196218/1/My-letter-to-my-aunt

  An exerpt:

  It's worse for a women over 50 to sleep around and become callous and desensitized. There's no one that thinks you have any practical value as a family member. More like hollow and emotionally deficient. I'm back at the meetings and getting involved with a real family (the Christian congregation). As long as your grossly immoral I'll just write you off as bad association and of no use to me.

  Please explain how this part proves the JW's value the family unit?

  We'll leave "drama and dysfunction" aside for now.....

  The grain of salt with my aunt was a small ripple in the fabric. Like I said, it was business related because I worked for her. In comparison (if you want to compare families), do you, have a husband and a daughter (or children) with no infidelity and/or divorce? I can answer yes and prove my end. If your answer is no, why should I have to argue with you or receive your personal attacks?
• 

  sabastious

  That's your family, not mine or the majority I've been exposed to in Jehovah's Organazation. There are some Witnesses who don't put the Truth into practice in their personal and family life. If your family is full of drama, my condolences. I avoid dysfunctional people and families so run along. I care not to converse with you in case you don't know. It's always you that initiates conversation with me and not vise-versa. Are you getting the picture?

  You are truly badass Maze, don't let anyone else tell you different! (not like you would anyway).

  -Sab
• 

  sabastious

  You're a legend, in your own mind, but a legend nonetheless!

  *tips hat*

  -Sab
• 

  charlie brown jr.

  Alice you are so lost living in your Ivory Slum.....

  There are hundreds of people on this forum who know so many other families who have been destroyed and to hear you say it's not the Norm.....

  From you isn't an Insult....cause your just so Pedictable...

  A JW Who loves Heavy Metal Bands who are sooooo on the Do NOT LISTEN TO LIST from WTS!!

  You are just someone who likes acting like your blind but you know the Truth.....

  You are so SEE THRU!!!!

  When you get BANNED AGAIN!!!

  Come back as SYBIL!!!!!
• 

  Retrovirus

  Hi and thank you all for all your replies!

  jean-luc picard, you expressed it better than I did. To keep a family together, members need to be open minded and willing to compromise, and that is completely opposed to wt teachings.

  ihadnoidea wrote My question would be does the Jehovah Witness faith actually better at keeping people married then other faiths? I do not think you can support this assertion with any marriage statistics Exactly. And jgnat's citation from jwfacts showed that they have at least the same number of divorces.

  diamondiiz, you may well be right, I did post in a rush of indignation!

  possible-san, Thanks for adding the link, I shouldn't have rushed it so, but was at work. Your other links are very interesting!

  charlie brown jr So sorry about your family!

  VoidEater, great points, I hadn't even thought of the incest, molestation and abuse issues. It is very sad when the top priority is the cover up to preserve the image.

  jgnat, thanks for the link to jwfacts. I was thinking more of religiously mixed marriages, but you are very right; if all the marital advice from the wt were divinely inspired, they should have a much lower divorce rate!

  Maze, thanks for posting. As jgnat replied, jwfacts gave the source of the statistics. It is ironic that the same article showed the wt as misusing statistics to give a false impression:

  "That hate can be replaced with love is illustrated by a survey taken in 1994 of 145,958 of Jehovah's Witnesses in Germany. ? In some countries one marriage out of every two or three ends in divorce. But the above-mentioned survey indicated that presently only 4.9 percent of the Witnesses are divorced or separated from their mates." Awake 1997 Sep 8 p.11

  jwfacts continues:

  The above article is a classic example of deceptive use of statistics. The Watchtower compares two unrelated figures - 4.9% of Witnesses are divorced; with 50% of worldly marriages ending in divorce - to make it appear that Witness marriages are significantly more successful than "worldly" marriages. The reality is that only about 5% of the general population is divorced, a figure almost identical to that amongst Witnesses.

  You continue with literature quotes, but that dodges the point of the OP. It's not what the wt says, but what actually happens. I hope you will respond to what was asked.

  Palmtree, that was funny!
• 

  Retrovirus

  Sorry Maze, i didn't read far enough. Thanks for addressing my concerns.

  Atheists claim to be absolutely right. Theists claim to be absolutely right. These individuals are no different than Jehovah's Witnesses are on their stand on certainty. Agnostics are somewhere in the middle

  Not all atheists and theists are so certain, and not many theists claim that people who believe differently will shortly be destroyed. AFAIK, no atheists do.

  Jehovah's Witnesses don't treat the world with contempt

  When someone comes to my door to tell me I follow the wrong religion, I don't feel respected.

  You do know that atheists don't allow others to take their children to church. People rear their children according to their core values and beliefs

  Another over generalisation. Some may not; others prefer to teach their children critical thinking and let them choose. My father was like that; he had no time for religion but we belonged to a church and he joined in many of the social functions and supported the Seniors' home.

  Also that sidestepped the question again. Can a jw parent allow their child freedom to choose their religion?

  I know plenty of Jehovah's Witnesses that have unbelieving mates and respect their spouses stand and beliefs

  I'm glad that is your experience. Does this respect mean that they don't persistently try to change those beliefs? If they didn't try, wouldn't they be "bloodguilty"?
• 

  Anony Mous

  Anyone else notice that Maze doesn't really respond to the questions. He just gives generalizations, watchtower publications and scriptures that tell how we JW's (and Christians) should behave but really don't.

  The proof: "U.S. Religious Landscape Survey 2008" by The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life surveyed 35,000 people and presents findings on divorce/separation rates. (http://religions.pewforum.org/reports as at April 20 2008) The following graph from the report shows the Witness rate of 14% was slightly above the U.S. average of 12%.

  The Pew Forum regularly publishes information on their website, open for everyone to review AND they publish HOW they got that information as well. They are a legitimate, scientific source and even the WTBTS uses them sometimes to show that JW's are the fastest growing religion (although they have the lowest retention rate).

  - You do know that atheists don't allow others to take their children to church. People rear their children according to their core values and beliefs.

  You do know that most religions don't mind that children leave their church when they are old enough. In the US and the EU, children have the RIGHT to choose their own religion, the WTBTS curtails that right by placing heavy sanctions upon any display of disloyalty to the organization. I don't know of any atheist (there might be a few but the vast majority) that would not allow their children to go to a religious service. Most interested parents do encourage a cultural experience of several religions and if the child finds something that they want, very few parents would get in the way of that.

  A question for you: do you think it is morally correct to allow children to be baptized and let them agree verbally to give up their rights to freedom of religion at an age that they are highly influenced and susceptible to do whatever it is that they need to do to be accepted by peers, parents and people in authority? Those kids are having sex, babies, smoke and do drugs just to belong or please, why is locking in their religion until they either die or get rejected by everybody they know acceptable just to belong or please?

  - I know plenty of Jehovah's Witnesses that have unbelieving mates and respect their spouses stand and beliefs

  I know too and the mate is regularly pressured into worshipping with JW's (simply coming to the meetings is worship according to WTBTS) however when that mate pressures a JW into participating in their worship it is unacceptable and persecution where the mate is a peon of Satan himself. Most other churches respect other religions and advocate leaving people alone to make up their mind.
• 

  fresia

  Diamond D said: you got that right, she/he does the same crap on one other forum that I know of and the hypocritical thing about all this is that they not even be and approved JW. Troll is lenient.

  You guys have to remember that Maze is a troll here who keeps making new accounts to confuse some who he is. S/he has been here for a long time under different names so it's not like s/he cares to debate on a logical level. These people are here to stir shit up without regard for the truth as truth is not found in them but deception.