How would you respond to this JW apologist??

by Black Man 17 Replies latest jw friends

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  TTWSYF

  Someone did a post a month or so ago about 'proof that the WTS is a cult' or some other such topic title. It went onto say that a JW strong in the faith would speak to you about any of your doubts about Jehovah, but would get elders involved if you spoke of any doubts about the WTS.

  That struck me as awful. It reminded me of stories of friend that couldn't talk to each other anymore because one was dfed. daed, dqed, what ever. Groups that control your life to that degree are control groups. Not Christian groups imo.

  dc
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  diamondiiz

  For some people it's good to be in a cult as it gives them structure in their lives that otherwise they were lacking. It appears so with this individual and many others who join high control groups. As we know, these sort of personalities are drawn to JWs simply because their lives have improved do to their belief that the God is helping them because getting out of former life style they now have some sort of order and "meaning" in their lives. The truth doesn't really matter for these individuals. Many lack education and critical thinking to discern that they are being lied to and to some of these individuals it's a waste of even talking to.
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  Ding

  A lot of other religious groups try to follow the Bible and have standards as well.

  Having your life run by external rewards and punishments administered by others is for children, not adults.
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  Palimpsest

  Why do you feel the need to counter his thinking?

  That was my first thought. If he's happy, good for him. Seems like he's thought it over, realized he has other options, considered them, but decided to stick with what he has going. I know we're not supposed to admit this because it harms our cool-kid apostate cred, but not everyone has an awful experience with the JWs. No point in trying to save people who don't feel like they're drowning.

  Do I agree with him? No. Is his decision to stay in going to limit his life negatively? Probably. Am I going to try to tell him that I know his circumstances better than he does and that he should choose my path in life instead? Not a chance.
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  darth frosty

  I like my life a whole lot better having structure. I'm happier and I'm a lot happier and living in the last days doesn't frighten me at all. matter of fact I welcome it cause this world ain't so nice anyway. if JWs are wrong then so be it, my conscience is clean because I'm living in harmony with the scriptures to the best of my ability & that's good enough for me.

  I really believe that this statement sums up a lot of people who remain in.
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  steve2

  You do have a choice of whether to respond at all. You could generously accept that this intelligent man has decided, for better or worse, that JWs are the religious group for him. Be happy for him that he has found a group that meets his needs as best as he could ever hope for.

  Then again, you could choose to respond with an answer designed to elicit some careful thinking. Whatever your response, though, keep it brief. I swear I nearly drown when I read some posters deep and lengthy treatises on religious topics. A general principle is, the shorter the more memorable it will be and, conversely, the longer, the greater the likelihood the reader will skip entire sections and miss out on otherwise compelling points buried deep within.

  here's the angle I'd take which can be summed up in a few words: JWs are no different from other religious groups:

  First, it's hard to reach anyone with evidence-based logic who believes that a supernatural force has protected or is protecting them, whether they be JWs, Mormons, Born Again Christians, Muslims, Hindus and so on. It ain't unique to the JWs - your friend doesn't seem to acknowledge this fundamental observation.

  Second, every single religious group on earth has its apologists; the theme of "I was once lost, but now am saved" is the life blood of these disparate groups. Again, your friend doesn't seem to acknowledge this equally basic observation.
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  jamiebowers

  if JWs are wrong then so be it, my conscience is clean because I'm living in harmony with the scriptures to the best of my ability & that's good enough for me. for everybody that's chasing what this world has to offer, I pray that you at least have faith in something and recognize that God is a God of order so it would make sense for Him to have an organized religion."

  Well, how nice for you! But let me ask you a question. Why is that people who are bothered by some of the more unsavory aspects of the Watchtower, such as cover ups of child molestation, are shunned by their jw families and lifelong jw friends if they take a stand against this kind of evil? There is no doubt that the cover ups have happened in the past, (see watchtowerdocuments.com), and continue to happen in current news reports.
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  trillaz

  To counter his claim means to getting a better understanding for why you and all of us are out.

  I won't say I can answer all his questions. But to live in a way only because he thinks it is the lesser of other evils is not really having faith in the WTB&TS and Jesus then Jehovah. Notice the order that I put that, with the GB first.

  Within any organization, of course there will be order if there is a structure and no mutual partnership. It also means that, inevitably, there is someone at the top and those at the bottom. Easily, those at the top control the bottom by incentives and promotion. What is most harmful when dealing with an organization that lays claim to divine inspiration, is the declaration that that organization, and not God, is lead over your life. Remember that Jehovah is a jealous God? Idol worship occurs within the Kingdom Halls.

  Lets look at the monthly course of "spiritual food"

  The magazines (Public and Study WT, Awake) are what 30 pages each? The KM 4-5 pages per month. The book study has about 20 pages per month if the books were average size. If you have a part, you've researched 5 other pages of WT material per part. If you "look into the deeper things of God" for the WT study and others, you look at an additional 5 pages of extra material per week.

  90-140 pages of WT literature a month are to be read and honored by active JWs by going door to door with the message from the publications. The scriptures that are used are excerpts, and used over and over and over. So you get to a point that you don't need the Bible. To keep up, you have to read the publications.

  Sure sounds like putting man ahead of Jehovah and worshipping what these men produce. All the while the ONLY scripture that we need to believe in that gives them this authority is Matt 24:45-47???