by AK - Jeff 328 Replies latest jw friends
Here is a non-Dawkins quote that may/may not be applicable:
"The inner defenses are unconscious. They consist of a kind of magic aura which the mind builds around cherished belief. Arguments which penetrate into the magic aura are not dealt with rationally but by a specific type of pseudo-reasoning. Absurdities and contradictions are made acceptable by specious rationalizations."
-- Arthur Koestler, The Yogi And The Commissar (1945)
Very, Jeff.
Here's one, since we were talking about suffering, that's bound to inflame the sensibilities of a whole bunch of people: (from "The God Delusion")
The anti-abortionist's next move in the verbal chess game usually goes something like this. The point is not whether a human embryo can or cannot suffer at present. The point lies in its potential. Abortion has deprived it of the opportunity for a full human life in the future. This notion is epitomized by a rhetorical argument whose extreme stupidity is its only defence against a charge of serious dishonesty. I am speaking of the Great Beethoven Fallacy, which exists in several forms.
another level of conversation, perhaps?
Nickolas...now you're throwing gas on the fire with that quote.
Going to check in later....because I gotta make like a baby and head out. (oh bad timing)
I think Nickolas is feeling brave after his " extraordinary shiraz"
Yes, you're right, cofty. I have come to think that abortion is one of JWN's sacred cows. It's just too inflammatory a subject. One that cannot be discussed rationally. I'm not sure myself where I stand.
Me neither, I would love to discuss it. Its v late her in UK, if a discussion gets going on abortion I will join in tomorrow
Shelby, I don't know what it is today (or maybe I do), but I sit here thinking something, and then next I know you are writing it!
As I was reading through the past many pages that were added since I gave up the computer to my children, I was thinking about suffering - as someone mentioned it - and I was thinking that it is US who need the suffering. To learn love and compassion and empathy, that we would otherwise not show or feel or learn.
In the Kingdom, suffering will be no more because we will have learned and been transformed. An evolution of the spirit, so to speak. There will be nothing left in us to commit acts of anger or hatred or jealousy or resentment... that lead to suffering of the world. Otherwise it would all just start over again.
Peace to you,
Tammy
I was thinking that it is US who need the suffering.
Slow down, girl. I'm not on your page at all.
Does "every" animal die via disease, predation, infection, etc.? Yes.
So, you're saying that NONE are virtually healthy before they meet their end in slaughterhouses, or due to experimentation, testing, and/or the like (you know... the "human" disease...), dear Cofty (peace to you!)? I realize that you might be including such under "predation" but I would challenge the accuracy of that given that nothing's really hunted or stalked under such circumstances... but pretty much just bred into captivity (no chance to even try and avoid being eaten - you know, no where to run, no where to hide). And what of those who live out their life expectancy (unless you're counting old age as a "disease"... which I mistook, my apologies...).
Don't some (most) die naturally. No
Hmmmm... are we counting insects in this tally? Because while it's true that a lot of small animals "prey" on things like flies, methinks a whole lot of THEM just fall "victim" to their, what is it, 24-hour life span?
So the suffering of millions is a gift from your god so we get the chance to show love?
You know, dear Cofty, I really was being sincere... and I really don't know WHERE you got that notion. That it IS... exists... does not mean that it is either a gift... OR from God. That it is allowed to exist... in order to TEACH [some of us, who might not learn otherwise] love... very well might be. For me personally, it is the lessons that I learn THROUGH it that is a gift. But that's just me. '
But, seriously, how many people have you heard say that because of "what [they] underwent/experienced and learned" from a suffering, they are "blessed", glad for it and "wouldn't change a thing"? Blind, lame, homeless, terminally ill... I have met people in all of these situations who have said that. Perhaps they believe their individual suffering IS a gift... perhaps, even from God. I would tell them, though, that it is not, that the gift would be healing them, if they so wished... and had faith in the One who could grant it. But that's just me... (and no, of course, I wouldn't tell them that if they were "content" in their "suffering" and didn't want to hear it...)
Now I remember how good it feels to no longer have to engage in this sort of mental gymnastics.
You put yourself through that "hoop", dear Cofty... not me. For some reason, you read a... "dark" motive into my Lord's words. Why?
Next time yehusha whatshisname pops by for a chat tell him Cofty says he is a shit
You know the name... and so you should feel totally free to tell him yourself. Just say it - spit it out. He'll hear you, even if you don't hear him.
Again, peace to you... truly!
A slave of Christ,
SA
