THE FLOOD - What's Jehovah's problem now?

by sizemik 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Anime Nerd

  Sapphy said:

  "I know that the society's idea is enough time had to elapse to prove that mankind was not able to govern on their own without God's input.

  I've never seen that idea in the Bible though.

  Even if you accept that idea, there's so many contradictions since if you believe the Bible, God never stops intervening.

  Adam & Eve disobey & God says "you're on your own, see if you can do better"

  God then springs into leaving them alone by kicking them out of the Garden of Eden, giving them a death sentence, cursing the ground and making childbirth more painful.

  God further leaves them alone by letting his rebelious angelic sons prey upon them.

  Continues leaving them alone by killing 99.9% of them in a global flood.

  Ignors them completely by confusing their languages at Babel.

  etc etc etc.

  Job proved imperfect people could be faithful to God. Jesus proved perfect people could be faithful. What is the point of allowing another 2000 years of death & pain if the 'issue' has already been solved?

  There are so many holes in JW theology, as a born in I'm ashamed of not seeing them earlier."

  I remember, as a teenager, having these exact same thoughts. I'd also add: God leaving man alone, when he "hardened" the heart of the Pharoh against the Israelites. My conclusion at the time: God was evil. I thought that the Witnessess were just doing what God wanted them to do, and I didn't view them as evil. I would often fantasize about technology and science advancing to the point where we would discover what God actually is. And then figure out a way to kill the murdering son of a bitch. I felt this way for years. It lead me to feel uterlly hopeless about my future. (I viewed myself as wicked because I couldn't stop watching porn and wanking.) That nothing I could acomplish in life would matter. That it would all just be erased and forgotten during the 1000 year reign.

  About a year and two months ago, I finally got the courage to Google Jehovah's Witnessess. Now, I view the bOrg as a destructive mind control cult. And if God even exists, I'm 100 percent sure, that he's not the vindictive, petty, chaotic, angry, murderous, fictional, god of the bible.

  As a teenager, I always thought that the flood should have settled the issue of god's soveregnty. The whole "second fullfillment" thing always seemed unneccessary to me.
• 

  cantleave

  God is evil, and wants the pointless suffering of billions not just a few. He set the Human Race up to fail, he instigated mass murder and genocide and expects worship and devotion.

  God is a total, uncaring bastard - worse than any evil I can think of.

  Thank Satan, God is a myth!
• 

  sizemik

  Thanks for your input everyone . . .

  There have been some very good arguments and comments expressed here. Some have expressed similar bewilderment as to why the "issues" were not settled by the deluge . . . others have presented views which they feel accounts for that.

  A previous post asked this question . . .

  Tell me, assuming you were in a position of hiring and firing, what would you do if someone challenged your position?

  In order to relate this to the topic, I can tell you what I wouldn't do . . .

  1. I wouldn't take a years leave of absence and leave him to run the Company just to prove he couldn't do it.

  2. I wouldn't let him continue to work according to his own ideas only to sack him a month later.

  3. I wouldn't deliberately change his working conditions to make his job intolerable.

  4. I wouldn't delay responding to his challenge just for the sake of his unborn children.

  5. I wouldn't sack the whole work force on account of his challenge.

  6. I wouldn't take the most obscure, cryptic and long-winded way possible to sort the matter while everybody suffered.

  Not only would I do none of these things once . . . I certainly would not do them several times. And if I did do any of the above . . . I would expect to be challenged about my behaviour.

  Without debating the validity or origin of the Bible, or dismissing the issue with excuses like "God is so much wiser than us etc etc" . . . I just want a credible explanation as to why all "issues" could not have been settled at that time . . . specifically, the following issues . . .

  1. God allowing man self-determination to prove he was not capable of autonomy. (Sovereignty)

  2. That men would not remain faithful under test. (Faithfulness based on love of God)

  3. That sin be made manifest. (Man recognising the need for a savior)

  These are not complicated issues.
• 

  streets76

  So THREE total Armageddon events just to clean up a mess that HE created in the first place with a ridiculous command not to eat a particular type of fruit.

  Three Armageddons just ain't enough, in my opinion. Personally, I'd feel better with seven, it's a biblical number. Make that ten or twelve.
• 

  JustHuman14

  The real issue I believe is to examine the origins of Jewish faith. If we do that then we will realize that Jews borrowed from the surrounding nations myths and re-introduce them in their belief system.

  As I said the Epic of Gilgamesh it is much older than "Noah's Flood" and you can see clearly that Hebrews copied that myth. The point is that if the Hebrew God distroyed an "evil mankind who had demons amongst them", and He just kept Noah and his family, why then didn't he bring mankind to perfection??? Why did we need to have another 4000 years of human history with all this wars and atrocities that took place? After the flood it was the "perfect timing" to bring mankind to perfection" but I guess the Hebrew God, likes to play with us!!!
• 

  alg1052

  There are many things the Bible does not tell us. We do not know what the situation was in heaven prior to man or for the most part the earth being formed. It is obvious that something was going on due to the fact God allowed Adam and Eve to be tempted by Satan. The deck was truly stacked against Adam. Man is basically used as guinea pigs in settling questions made at a the heavenly level.

  God is very patient. He allows time for things to play out. Prior to the flood he may have allowed disobedient angels to reveal themselves . In addition, we do not know what rules were set up in settling the issues.

  It does appear that there are 3 Armageddon events, Noah's flood, Armageddon and after Christ's thousand year reign.

  1. Noah's Flood: Reasons have been discussed.

  2. Armageddon: Clensing the Earth of the failing man made system under the influence of Satan. Faith is important in our current system. (John 3:16)

  3. After 1000 year reign: After mankind (resurrected and armageddon survivors) is brought to perfection. Satan will have the opportunity to finally test a fully informed perfect mankind (does not appear faith will be an issue). This will give man the opportunity to choose whether or not they want to live under God's rulership. Some may question as to why the final test after Christ's 1000 year reign? There are millions of angels watching as this earthly drama unfolds. When it concludes all questions concerning God's universal sovereignty will be settled.

  Thinking about all of the innocent people that have died. These people will have the benefit of the ressurection.
• 

  sabastious

  Why didn't the flood settle things?

  Well first off myths can't "settle" anything.

  Plus when you read what happened shortly after the flood with Noah and his daughters you'll see why God realized this was only a "bandaid."

  -Sab
• 

  sabastious

  It is obvious that something was going on due to the fact God allowed Adam and Eve to be tempted by Satan.

  "Obvious" eh? Really?

  -Sab
• 

  sabastious

  After 1000 year reign: After mankind (resurrected and armageddon survivors) is brought to perfection. Satan will have the opportunity to finally test a fully informed perfect mankind (does not appear faith will be an issue). This will give man the opportunity to choose whether or not they want to live under God's rulership.

  Sounds like a setup for God to kill a few more people at the very end; it'll be his last killing and all; shold be a somber moment when he snuffs the life out of his last victim.

  -Sab
• 

  sabastious

  When it concludes all questions concerning God's universal sovereignty will be settled.

  Eternal bliss, utopia yadda yadda send me a postcard.

  -Sab