by eruption 37 Replies latest jw friends
the only opinion that matters to me is mine and those who love me....
You cannot go back in time and undo anything.
MOST of the hundreds of elders that I personally knew were decent and kind human beings. There were a few Grade A a$$holes, but this is just human nature. These people would be a$$holes, with or without the cult.
There were a few Grade A a$$holes, but this is just human nature. These people would be a$$holes, with or without the cult.
Yup. We had a public talk this weekend where they speaker was yammering on about how there's "no kindness in this world (outside of the Organization, that is...)". He bitched about how people at the store don't even hold the door for you. But people hold the door for me all the time!
It makes you realize that there are really good non-jws and real prick non-jws. Just like there are really good JWs and real prick JWs. It's called dealing with humanity.
Hey stuckin, We all come at this things from a different angle,My best friend is a servring Elder, a great guy. I have a degree, and it pissed a few of the elders off, what can you do ? I am almost apologetic about it, pointing out I got it before I became a witness, If you wanted to advance in the JW ranks,dont acknowledge you are educated. My other mate is a teacher, yes he is guilty, got degree, he is hated more than me, Its a sin to be educated , easpecially after baptism, he is hated and despised, called a homo ,and derided.
You cannot make blanket statements about every elder in the same way you cannot generalise any other group of people. I have known caring, loving elders who did their best to lead by example.
Men are appointed as elders when other elders think that they have reached an appropriate level of indoctrination and they will tow the line. Sincere men become elders because they believe that the elders have gods spirit and they can do good in the congregation. Insincere men just want the position.
I think for the sincere men the revelation that the elders are not led by holy spirit is truly shocking and many go through a process of denial thinking that they can make a difference and be a positive influence. It takes time to realise that one person can have only limited impact and that if there are those on the body who want to run the congregation as their personal fiefdom there is little you can do. Then there is the problem with stepping down since the society doesn't want elders to resign so they make the announcement deliberately ambiguous to cause maximum embarrasment trying to intimidate elders into staying in post.
I personally feel that ex elders bear a huge amount of guilt and there but by the grace of god and my gender go I. The society suckered them in more than some and tried to mould them into their image. They had more to loose in terms of status both when they stepped down and then again when they were df'd.
The important thing is they quit they gave up all the society offered. Some lost wives and family let us not demean that sacrifice.
Its just a disaster for everyone involved, feel for all of you, and for me, onwards and upwards, lol
Even the frigging C.O. I had such trouble with, I would love to have over to the Lake Tahoe Apostafest if he came out and realized the error of his ways. But to address the points:
Point 1. Not so long I would have strung them all up and hanged them.
I see them as victims who are all the way in. I pity them while they are in. I hope they wake up as I did.
point 2. These guys were THE real succers, not only did they become JW,s, they embraced and adopted the cults teachings, and to some extent subjugated thier familys happiness, and thier own,to Elevate themselves, and achieve status and recieve privellages, IE not have a F-----g life
While I may have "embraced and adopted the cult teachings," with some of the happiness results you mention, it was not to elevate myself. I accepted the "position" because I thought it was what God wanted me to do. YES, I was that far gone. Luckily, the position woke me up.
point 3 They had the onerus task of making sense, of the Ever changing (Truths) and having to teach that crap to the rest of us, and cope with the subsequent questionings that would invariably follow.
I could go along with what you say here. Being all in (as a victim) I did my best to make sense of the ever changing doctrines. I would say that any elder really paying attention to the changes should eventually notice the problems with them.
point 4.They had to take the lead in (Sales) distributing literature
Ha ha. NO. They took the lead in sending the sales force out. Pioneers did a much better job of it. Elders put in their token amount then had something important to go do. In my case, the regular sales was dreaded just like with many members.
Point 5.They were the Authoritarian Face of the Society, and a lot of people, (myself included ) thought they were jumped up janitors and window cleaners with a chip on thier shoulders. (many are )
Often true. I hope I was a jumped up janitor/window washer with no chip on his shoulder toward the members. I tried to give members a break and helped them avoid judicial matters. There was one case where I was the chairman of a JC where the member will not remember me kindly, but if she knew how my hands were tied, she would take any anger for me and put it upon WTS. Sorry, "sister."
point 6.Many of them are arseholes, but equally many really tried the best they could, under immposible circumstances.So to you guys. I tip my hat to you, I will never know you nor meet you, but I wish you well.
I wish you well, too.
Are JW EX elders in need of our contempt or sympathy ?
A little from column A... a little from column B
I believe a little of both if they are honest hearted, contempt-- which is a strong word unless they are reall a$$e$.. - maybe just desserts would be appropriate--- because they may have destroyed lives while in service to the congregation but sympathy because they have lost their faith and their lives due to the overbearing remaining good standing elders who can pounce on them and harrass them - driving them out of the hall - and all because they may have asked a question that others can perceive as being wrong thinking or leaning towards apostasy.
I know of one elder who has stepped down from the RBC and said he would never go back... another who has been on the hit list by elders in his congregation because he has a heart - even his friend - the PO or CoBoE would not stand up for him while 2 others blindsided him at all meetings - both have re thought their positions and are ready to step down and even talk of leaving the truth as they don't feel it is the truth any longer... some still go through hell just to remain a witness because somewhere they still believe ....knowing what their life would be without the cong and in a lot of instances, their families...
Point 1. Not so long I would have strung them all up and hanged them.
point 2. These guys were THE real succers, not only did they become JW,s, they embraced and adopted the cults teachings, and to some extent subjugated thier familys happiness, and thier own,to Elevate themselves, and achieve status and recieve privellages, IE not have a F-----g life
point 3 They had the onerus task of making sense, of the Ever changing (Truths) and having to teach that crap to the rest of us, and cope with the subsequent questionings that would invariably follow.
point 4.They had to take the lead in (Sales) distributing literature
Point 5.They were the Authoritarian Face of the Society, and a lot of people, (myself included ) thought they were jumped up janitors and window cleaners with a chip on thier shoulders. (many are )
point 6.Many of them are arseholes, but equally many really tried the best they could, under immposible circumstances.So to you guys. I tip my hat to you, I will never know you nor meet you, but I wish you well.
I'm an ex-elder, out for 15 years now. You are way out of line trying to guilt us. Go _uck yourself. Think About It
I said what I felt I had to say on this and wasnt going to bother with it anymore, but two comments prompted me to reply...
first to dear nugget... Thank you. dont know what else I can express other than thank you....
the second was think about it's comment....
.... i want to further quote the song I mentioned in my previous post.... the fact is as much as people hate marshal mathers he knows who he is and dosent care what others think... the words of this song ring true and seem especially appropriate in this case
I'm so sick and tired of being admired
That I wish that I would just die or get fired
And drop from my label and stop with the fables
I'm not gonna be able to top what my name is
And pigeon holdin' to some poppy sensations
They cop me rotation at Rock 'N' Roll stations
And I just do not have the patience
To deal with this cocky Caucasians
Who think I'm some wigga who just tries to be black
Cause I talk with an accent and grab on my b**s
So they always keep asking the same f****g questions
What school did I go to?
What hood I grew up in?
The why? The who, what?
When and where and the how?
Till I'm grabbing my hair and I'm tearing it out
You've been driving me crazy, I can't take it
I'm racing, I'm pacing, I stand and I sit
And I'm thankful for every fan that I get
But I can't take a s*** in the bathroom
Without someone standing by it
No I won't sign your autograph
You can call me an a$$HOle
I'm glad cause
And I am
Whatever you say I am
If I wasn't, then why would I say I am?
In the papers, the news, everyday I am
Radio won't even play my jam
Cause I am
Whatever you say I am
If I wasn't, then why would I say I am?
In the papers, the news, everyday I am
I don't know it's just the way I am
Think about it, there will always be people in life who hate for some reason.... elder or not. all of us have a track record to be judged by and I hope that we are indeed judged by who we are not some imaginary tittle bestowed by a powerless group of old men. But there will always be some who make snap judgments, who make determinations based on arbitrary nonsense.... in those cases, for me and me alone, I figure I am whatever they say I am. and I could care less.
