by eruption 37 Replies latest jw friends
Blondie's husband is an ex-elder, and a great guy. Was popular in the congregation. Took time for people.
Irreverent said that becoming an elder opened his eyes to the hypocrisy of the whole thing. Meetings ain't pretty behind the curtain. Becoming an elder was the first step on getting out.
Eruption:
If they are here we should give them a break.
You describe several types of elders in the religion and I have seen them all. Some elders were intelligent and I could respect what they said as long as their counsel was from the Bible. And as long as they didn't betray some bias or stupidity and they didn't overstep their boundaries. Unfortunately too many elders fell into this category. Even though people say "oh, well, they are imperfect.." these imperfect and often uneducated men are tampering with people's lives. This is a serious thing and in some cases the bad results are unforgiveable.
Many years ago I became disappointed with the elders over an issue with a manipulative individual who thought they would use the elders as their personal "hit-men" because I had to tell this person off. Meanwhile, I never would have done this. If I had an issue with somebody, I went straight to them and didn't need any "intermediary" or "arbitrator". Even though this person's manipulative ploy did not work, I was disappointed to see that all the elders cared about was that "peace" was restored and they thought they were going to "shut us up" like we were kids. I had no intention of having my intelligence insulted and privately told one of the elders (who I was friendly with) just how I felt and that I would never again talk to them or reveal anything to them. I kept my promise.
It's a little awkward for an ex elder to jump in here because there's the risk of appearing defensive. So I won't defend. I will say this, by way of paraphrasing a famous poet: "You did what you knew and when you knew better you stopped doing it."
There are a lot of elders in JW congos who know better but keep doing it for all sorts of personal, family and business reasons.
The ones who stopped doing it for reasons of conscience don't need sympathy and don't deserve contempt. Finding the courage to walk away is its own reward.
I lean toward sympathy. The ones I have contempt for are the ones who remain elders even after they discover it's all a crock of shit.
I'm glad I was never an elder or MS. I've got enough other history I regularly beat myself up over.
W
As a recently resigned elder, I'll weigh in, for what it's worth.
Point 1. Not so long I would have strung them all up and hanged them.
Ha! No comment.
point 2. These guys were THE real succers, not only did they become JW,s, they embraced and adopted the cults teachings, and to some extent subjugated thier familys happiness, and thier own,to Elevate themselves, and achieve status and recieve privellages, IE not have a F-----g life
I was born-in and heavily indoctrinated. I had to find out everything about the real WT Org on my own as an adult. Looking back, I do feel like a sucker. I never had the desire to "elevate" myself or "achieve status." I thought that my increased level of service was actually putting myself below my brothers and sisters. I had to work hard and put up with a lot stress induced headaches. Priveleges = work. I was happy to work for the good of the congregation.
point 3 They had the onerus task of making sense, of the Ever changing (Truths) and having to teach that crap to the rest of us, and cope with the subsequent questionings that would invariably follow.
This is where I began to have my conscience bothered. When I began deep research into the history and teachings of the WT, I became troubled with what I found out. I was personally responsible for teaching the JW doctrine, much of which I either didn't believe, or wasn't sure enough about to speak with conviction. This ultimately led to my resignation.
point 4.They had to take the lead in (Sales) distributing literature
For this, I'm sorry. I barely go out in the ministry anymore myself. As I was becoming more aware of the gap between my personal beliefs and those of the WT, I began to soften my approach in Service Meeting parts. I would cover the required material (featured offers, new procedures, start studies, start studies, start studies) and then always conclude by saying something like, "Maybe this approach is not for you. Maybe you feel that your abilities in the ministry may be different than suggested here in the KM. If so, find something you are comfortable with and work with that. We all know what we're personally capable of and should work within the boundaries of our own strengths and weaknesses." I had a lot of friends thank me for those words. It showed me how burdened some of the friends are by the constant push to do more and more.
Point 5.They were the Authoritarian Face of the Society, and a lot of people, (myself included ) thought they were ju mped up janitors and window cleaners with a chip on thier shoulders. (many are )
I'm a college educated business professional. I had no desire to be any sort of authority in the Org. But as much as I tried to avoid it, some people hear the title of elder and think, "AUTHORITY." This is another reason I stepped down.
point 6.Many of them are arseholes, but equally many really tried the best they could, under immposible circumstances.So to you guys. I tip my hat to you, I will never know you nor meet you, but I wish you well.
I can be a jerk sometimes. But I always tried to keep my jerkiness to myself, especially when dealing with congregational matters. You're right about "impossible circumstances." These positions should not be occupied my imperfect men. Unfortunately, imperfect men is all there is to work with.
Jgnat, Its possible I was just unfortunate, but so many of my friends, all ex-J dubs dont have a good word to say about the elders.My own experiences were really bad, for Eg, the elder who was assigned to help me, ran off with my wife. Now its understandable, that that experience would cloud my judgment of them. However, my 3 closest friends, are 2ex MS and 1 ex elder, who have no such axe to grind. Indeed they poke fun at wtbts, Why, because they benifited from having family conections, (nepitism) they laugh and tell me they should never have been appointed, they were doing drugs and getting hammered, too drunk to take FS ect.
I personally would love to see more of them here, my own experience was rare( i hope )
It was a kind and popular elder who coaxed my lapsed hubby back to the Witnesses. And it was a Ministerial Servant with an axe to grind who nearly convinced hubby to leave.
Elders who have lost their perspective are the best agents at getting people out. It's easy enough to fall in to conformity, and it only gets worse the higher they go. It starts with wearing the tie.
P.S. I should point out that this kind and popular elder was disfellowshipped shortly after. I imagine he did not fit the mold.
Falcon & flipper are spot on—it must be case-by-case, not either-or. Look at how many of us left and got enlightened. What if you'd strung us up? We'd have died still deceived!
EE's comment is also good:
'Whoever is in a perceived place of authority will always get abuse and looked down, deserved or not.' Kudos for your insight.
OTWO:
You too make some right on observations. It was rare to find an elder who actually liked the field service & those who did were of a different breed. I loved your 'They took the lead in sending the sales force out.'
sizemik & eruption:
Sorry for all the bad experiences you had. I guess I was more fortunate, but I did know some real power-hungry, non-spiritual idiot elders. Working with them was awful. I suffered more from their widespread gross incompetence tho.
sizemik: nice to see your revised statement! Healing is important . . .
