by nicolaou 64 Replies latest watchtower bible
You say that as if it was a bad thing.
When your eternal future, heavenly or otherwise, supposedly rests on the message Jesus is said to have delivered during his incarnation as a man on earth then yes, I'd say it's damned bad thing that we can't be sure just what that message was.
Very unfair really.
Nic, since you don't believe any of it, I don't get your point.
Syl
I'm trying to understand Sylvia just what those of you who DO believe it are basing your faith on?
When your eternal future, heavenly or otherwise, supposedly rests on the message Jesus is said to have delivered during his incarnation as a man on earth then yes, I'd say it's damned bad thing that we can't be sure just what that message was.
The one thing all christians agree on Bro is that our eternal future, our salvation, is based on God's grace, not the bible.
Very unfair really.
I think that, IF you get hung up on salvation VIA works or via following some prescribed procedure that, yes, it is unfair.
But Christ didn't give us that, he gave us God'd grace that saves Us , The path to God which is HIM, and the commandment to love each other as he loved us, so we know what to do with that grace.
People who choose to take things beyond that, well, that is thier choice.
I base my faith on the belief that we have a Creator who has revealed Himself through His Message which can be found only in the Sacred Scriptures which were compiled over a period of years by members of the tribes of Israel.
Syl
Well you can't BOTH be right!
Well you can't BOTH be right!
Who says?
LOL.
Neither of us contradicts the other.
Syl
nicolaou:
Yeah, somebody must have been hiding behind a tree with a camcorder in the first century.
Your question reminds me of when I was attending the home book studies over the years and somebody would look a picture in the book and say: "the picture shows...." - and I would laugh to myself: are these people for real? Do they think these are real photographs?
One other thing before I take my leave.
Mark 14:35-35 Going a little ahead, he fell to the ground and prayed for a way out: "Papa, Father, you can—can't you?—get me out of this. Take this cup away from me. But please, not what I want—what do you want?" The Message Bible
In whichever manner this was revealed to the writer, doesn't it just break your heart?
Incidentally, this is one of the 3 places in Holy Writ that the Aramaic term, Abba (Papa), was used to refer to the Father.
The other 2 are Romans 8 and Galatians 4.
I simply LOVE the holy writings. Can you tell?
Syl
Wow! That's exactly the position that atheists like myself have been trying to get across for years!
Oh yeah? You think atheists came up with the concept? You are simply naive and even ignorant of what non-jw's and non fundamentalist Christians believe and have believed all along. It is widly held that from the time of Christ, his followers were universalist in their concept of God. It was later corrupt men who decided a devisive, scary God would be better to control people's behavior with. How many times did you hear the WTBTS criticize and mock churches for promoting the idea that all roads lead to God? I heard that all the time and I thought, "Yeah, a lot of them do think that."
When I was growing up in the Episcopal Church, visiting any church my friends went to that I could, I understood that most people did not believe the Bible to be all inspired and they were theists, NOT atheists.
Long before I ever heard of JW's, I understood the Bible was not all God's word. I honestly never heard anyone who thought it was literal until I studied with the JW's when I was 17-20. I knew God loved everyone and that there was nothing God couldn't forgive. You'd like to think somehow your idea of the Bible and Christianity is more the idea of atheists. The fact is that fundamentalist Chrisitanity is considered narrow minded and harsh by the majority of Anglicans, a huge percentage of Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists. One of the most successful non-denominatial churches in Grand Rapids, Mars Hill headed by Rob Bell is Universalist in its teachings. Rob Bell has a new book out now about God and Universalism. You ever see those LOve Wins bumper stickers? Rob Bell started that. Ever hear of the book If Grace Is True: How God Will Save Every Person by two Quaker ministers. Then there is the experience of Pentecostalist Bishop Carlton D. Pearson, right hand man of Oral Roberts, awakening to Universalism.
It is the strict fundamentalist view of the Bible, which is the idea of men, that spawns divisiveness. Jesus preached and demonstrated love for everyone. He was the most harsh against divisive people such as the Pharisees.
Where on earth do you pull your "powerful concept of Christ" from if not the Bible? Without the Bible THERE WOULD BE NO CHRISTIANITY and yet you almost dismiss it by saying that there is only "some truth and some accuracy included in the Bible, that it is not a book written by God".
The Bible is not the only historical record of Christ and his followers. Why does this get your ire up so much, Nic? Probably because you were just sure all Chrisitans believed as narrowly as JW's or say strict Baptists. You just can't fathom that more Chrisitans were and are very cool people who think outside the box, just as Christ did. It's the fundamentalist Christians and Muslims who are the loudest. Don't believe they speak for all Muslims and Christians.
The Bible says God is Love. I believe that. It defines love at 1 Corinthians 13:4-8. It says love your neighbor as yourself and pray for your enemies. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Very powerful concepts, no matter where you find them.
