Sorry EXMS but your experience sounds pretty rare, if not unbelievable. I have never heard of an elder alluding to the method of suicide/death during the funeral service, let alone at any other time. The circumstances of such deaths are usually of interest to the Police and Coroners - but to the best of my knowledge, the Watchtower Society would never condone the publicising of methods of death by any JW, elders included. If you have evidence that this has occurred beyond your own locality, please present it. Otherwise, the topic comes across as slyly malicious.
Lies about Suicides in Congregations
by EXMS 33 Replies latest jw experiences
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GLTirebiter
I know the RCs believe suicides don't go to heaven.
Tal, it's not cut-and dried. We are not capable of knowing what was in the person's heart, if they really knew what they were doing, if an ill-advised attempt to cry for help went too far, etc. Therefore we do not know the eternal fate of a person who commits suicide. The church teaches us to hope for the best and pray for them, as stated in Catechism article 2283:
We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.
When did the WT start allowing brothers to own fire arms?
My Ex's brothers (MS and elder among them) all have arms of various sorts: hunting rifles, shotguns, pistols, black-powder rifles, and hunting bows. Others in the local congregation own arms, target shoot, and hunt. In this part of the country, hunting and target shooting are ordinary parts of life. Not everybody does it, but people here don't think it odd or scary if you do.
OTOH, I'm not aware of any local Witness who has a concealed-carry permit (any adult who passes a background check, safety class, and firing range test can get one). It appears to me there is a distinction between Witnesses owning guns for recreational use vs. self-defense--one of those "conscience matters", perhaps?
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talesin
GL - tkx for the correction, I did think it was that cut-and-dried , or maybe purgatory,,, I just happened to check this thread after yr post :)
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GLTirebiter
You're welcome, Tal!
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Iamallcool
When I was a kid, my Elder Dad told me a brother shot her mother to death by mistake and he would not tell me who was the brother and the mother that died. I asked him years later who were they, he would still not tell me.
P.S. Sorry if it is off topic little bit.
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Alfred
Talesin and Dissed: Thanks for clearing that up (about the right to bear arms)... I guess it IS a local thing as there's no sport hunting anywhere near my area (that's all I'll say about that, for now).
Please excuse my complete ignorance, but I assume Canadians are also allowed to use their fire arms in self defense (against humans)?
Steve 2: I thought this story seemed quite odd also, but I've heard a lot stranger things come out of elders' mouths at the most inappropriate times in the past.
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Aussie Oz
Generaly though, a suicide will not recieve a funeral at the kingdom hall and Elders are told to weigh the matter carefully before being involved in a memorial service too.
WT 6/15 2002 question from readers is interesting to read.
There is also more concern for the WT reputation than the deceased or the relatives.
I could be wrong, but believe the most thorough treatment of the subject of suicide and resurrection in recent years was in the September 8 1990 Awake! "The Bible's Viewpoint: Suicides--A Resurrection?"
While still labeling suicide as "self murder," the viewpoint expressed was that "Only God can fully understand the role of mental sickness, extreme stress, even genetic defects in a "suicidal crises".." Friends and family of a suicide victim could rightly hope for a future ressurrection.
It would appear too that the 2002 WT changes the 1990 awake veiwpoint (one no doubt printed for the public) :
Still, if a Christian minister is asked to preside at the funeral, he may feel that on a private basis, he can do so. If he decides to do so, he should be discreet in not making any firm statements about whether a resurrection might be possible. Any future prospect for the dead is in the hands of Jehovah, and no one is in a position to say whether the deceased will be resurrected or not. The minister can concentrate on the Bible truths about death and offer comfort for the bereaved.
Oz
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Pams girl
Oh God the post about the lady who killed herself because she couldn t face the shame of a JC makes me so angry. Bastards.
A neighbour of mine killed himself, hubby and me found him dangling from the stairs. I asked my study teacher would he be ressurected and she said yes, all his sins had died with him. (He was mentally ill and had a drug problem).
But she told me I was not to go on rollercoasters or bungi jumping as my life was precious and I would want to put myself in danger out of respect for the life Jehovah had given me. Total tool.
PAULA x
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sizemik
TD said . . .
While still labeling suicide as "self murder," the viewpoint expressed was that "Only God can fully understand the role of mental sickness, extreme stress, even genetic defects in a "suicidal crises".." Friends and family of a suicide victim could rightly hope for a future ressurrection.
This was my understanding also, and I do remember the article because suicides featured prominently in my JW experience. I knew 12 people personally in 24 years who suicided as JW's or children thereof.
However Aussie Oz said . . .
Generaly though, a suicide will not recieve a funeral at the kingdom hall and Elders are told to weigh the matter carefully before being involved in a memorial service too.
This has been my experince also. Of the 12 mentioned above only 2 had KH funerals.
As for my opinion . . . the labelling of suicide as "self murder" simply displays a shallow understanding. In learning about the subject I have little doubt that suicide "victims" seldom, if ever actually want to end their life. What they are "murdering" is an insufferable pain . . . not life. It's just coincidental that the two cannot be seperated. That level of pain could not be endured indefinitely by any human . . . we just can't know that lest we experience it. The real "killer" is the source of that pain.
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ssn587
EXMS why would u even care how they handle it, they are doing it for the family and not u, had a family member 27 yrs ago, commit suicide, they were depressed, suffering from terminal cancer and weren't even close to being in the right mind, but were very very religiously catholic. who is to say what finally tripped them, it was their decision to do so whether or not they were of sound mind at that particular time. I dont judge them, i just miss them.