What a fascinating thread this is becoming....if you are going to measure the size of a demon then you MUST decide from which source one will measure....science, or the mystic...
How big is a demon?
by Terry 69 Replies latest jw friends
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james_woods
Or smoke them ... demons do not like smoke.
Except cigarettes or presumably marijuana - both are demonized druggery. BTW, have we mentioned the ectoplasm yet on this thread? Is the ectoplasm contained within the demon, or created spontaneously as needed - to be discared later?
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trevor
demons do not like smoke.
This must be why cats don't like smoke - they are all demonised.
A demon is bigger than a man but smaller than the Devil.
Don't let one get inside your head - there just isn't enough room for a demon and a brain!
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botchtowersociety
Imaginary things have the luxury of being any size. They can be any place.
So how big is your mind, or your thoughts, or your emotions, Terry?
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Shanagirl
ixthis,
The Gnostic Christians of the early centuries AD, who
preserved the original teachings of Jesus, distinguished
between the TRUE Heavenly Father and the gods in the Hebrew
Bible. Jehovah (YHWH) was NOT the HEAVENLY FATHER revealed
by Jesus. While the Jewish Bible revealed a tribal god, the
God of Jesus was the universal Supreme Being of all
humanity.The Hebrew god was a god of fear, while Jesus’ Heavenly
Father was a God of love. In fact, Jesus never referred to
the Heavenly Father as Jehovah aka Yahweh Ildabaoth the
Demiurge. In the Gospels of the New Testament Jesus NEVER referred to Jehovah.In the New Testament Gospels Jesus refers to the Heavenly Father, God of Love
The Gnostic Gospel of Peter states that the
Hebrews were under the delusion that they knew the Heavenly
Father, but DID NOT. They were ignorant of him, and knew
only a false god, an impostor, whose true nature was unknown
to them.The Gnostics exposed Jehovah aka Yahweh Ildabaoth the
Demiurge and the creator god Yaldabaoth the Demiurge as the
creative power of our current earths re-creation from the
chaotic mess it had been left in after the last global
cataclysm. One of the Gnostic teachers told how the unknown
Father made the angels, archangels, powers and dominions.
The world we currently live in and everything in it, was
REMADE by seven particular angels. These angels he described
as rebellious feeble artisans. (See the list below)In the Gnostic Aprocraphon Book of John
Click here: The Secret Book of John (Apocryphon of John) Jesus speaks with the apostle John about the Supreme Being in the beginning and how all creation eminatef from his forethought, and how Yaldabaoth first came into existance along with the chaos that was brought about and the . I believe this false god is the god of the three major religious groups in chaotic struggle today on earth causing the evils and bloodshed presently. This Jehovah Yahweh god has brought this to humanity today just like he did in the Old Testament sufferings of the Hebrew worshippers. Islam, Judaism and Christianity are all vicitms of this chaotic bloodthirsty god of jealousy and war. If that is not how big a demon is than what is?
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ixthis
Shanagirl,
I would say that the demon of heresy and confusion is the nastiest since he robs people from the true Way and Life.
... The Secret Book of John/Apocryphon of John is considered by scholars to be the locus classicus for the Gnostic mythological system not for Christianity. That is important to note and to continue to highlight. This book is estimated to have been authored within the date range of 120-180AD.
Interestingly, there is only evidence of four distinct editions in circulation from this period;
- the first edition is represented by two identical Coptic manuscripts (MSS NHC II and NHC IV) that are slightly defective so the readings of each are restored through the other. This edition contains lengthy excerpts from a certain book called the "Book of Zoroaster" ...
- the second edition, represented by the Coptic manuscript MS NHC III, differs in style and vocabulary from all other Coptic versions.
- The third edition (Coptic MS p. Berol 8502) has the same issue as the second edition in that its style and vocabulary vary from all other versions.
- The last edition is so brief and compressed that it barely classifies as authoritative and is quite distinguished from each of the other three versions.
As already pointed out, this book is an important work not for Christians but for mythological Gnosticism. Using its framework, the gnostics state it is a "revelation" by the "resurrected Christ" to John the son of Zebedee ... its mythological description is developed largely through terms from the early chapters of Genesis.
It is a problematic book because there already existed a revelation from the resurrected Christ to the son of Zebedee, John, in the the canonical book, Apocalypse of John, dated by scholars to be within the date range of 90-95AD. Clearly, 25-85 years before the secret book. Which one is the authentic revelation? There can not be two ...
Reports from the early church fathers indicate that they were familiar with this book and its contents but did not authorise its authenticity ... Example, the teachings of certain Gnostics described by Irenaeus are very similar to the cosmological teachings of the present Gnostics. It is clear that Irenaeus did not know the Apocryphon of John in its present form but that he did know of it in its original form ... so it is certain that the main teachings of the tractate did exist before 185 since the date of Irenaeus work, Against Heresies was around this time.
This lays the foundation of its historical context ...
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ixthis
Shanagirl (post 2)
People who are reading this discussion should know that "apocrypha" is a dangerous word and it is not a term that is usually thrown around so blithely by scholars.
The term Apocrypha is used with various meanings, including "hidden", "esoteric", "spurious", "of questionable authenticity" etc. The word is originally Greek (?π?κρυφα) and this literally means "those having been hidden away". The word took on the more negative meaning in the 16th century when the Protestants questioned the (until then) accepted canon of Scripture.
I think it is a misleading term since Protestants, for example, will use it to define certain books that are indeed canonical and accepted as authentic ... Therefore, since these books have not really been "hidden away" but merely neglected by the Protestants, I think it a very inaccurate and misleading term.
We have the recognized and accepted body of Canonical Scripture (some of which is rejected by modern Protestantism). Outside of that we have the edifying and instructional works like the Didache, Shepherd of Hermas, Protoevangelion of James, various epistles and early writings deemed meeting the standard as defined by the Canon of Scripture.
Beyond that the other works are outright forgeries and heretical works deemed outside the standards of Canonical Scripture as judged by the collective wisdom of the Church.
The Apocryphal writings, officially rejected by the church (though they may contain elements of the truth not found elsewhere) are those being tainted by gnosticism and other heresies. As with anything we go to the Church Fathers. The following are certain fakes and should not be read,
- Acts of Peter and Paul
- Acts of Pilate/Gospel of Pilate
The following are of the gnostics,
- Apocryphon of James
- Book of Thomas the Contender
- Dialogue of the Saviour
- Gospel of Judas
- Gospel of Mary
- Gospel of Philip
- Greek Gospel of the Egyptians
- The Sophia of Jesus Christ
- Gospel of Truth
- Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter
- Pistis Sophia
- Second Treatise of the Great Seth
- Apocryphon of John
- Coptic Gospel of the Egyptians
- Coptic Apocalypse of Paul
- Trimorphic Protennoia
Here is St. Athanasios 39th canonical epistle:
".... Continuing, I must without hesitation mention the scriptures of the New Testament; they are the following: the four Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, after them the Acts of the Apostles and the seven so-called catholic epistles of the apostles -- namely, one of James, two of Peter, then three of John and after these one of Jude. In addition there are fourteen epistles of the apostle Paul written in the following order: the first to the Romans, then two to the Corinthians and then after these the one to the Galatians, following it the one to the Ephesians, thereafter the one to the Philippians and the one to the Colossians and two to the Thessalonians and the epistle to the Hebrews and then immediately two to Timothy, one to Titus and lastly the one to Philemon. Yet further the Revelation of John."
Test all things keep what is good.
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Band on the Run
You are assuming a demon is beholden to physical laws of the universe. It is interesting. Satan is said to be very attractive, a man of wealth and fame. Angels are described in the Bible as creating terror in humans so I don't think the Rapahelite cherubs hold much water.
Demons are as real as the person who believes in them.
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Shanagirl
ixthism, I do get what you are saying when you mention
I would say that the demon of heresy and confusion is the nastiest since he robs people from the true Way and Life.
Heresy is the label gives to heretics, just as apostasy is the label Watchtower gives to JW's as apostates. The imporant thing to me is to choose sprirituality that is not religiosity or organized dogma that persecutes others who choose to worship differently. I choose to embrace the following concepts from Christian Gnostism. I think it enriches the Gospels in Christ's teachings in apochrypal book of John. The message is comforting to me in many ways, after being in such an authoritarian judgemental, punishing religion of Watchtower. I also have read about the Watchers and rebellious angels in pre flood time. I found this very facinating and supplements the Genenis account of the Flood.
The bottom line about the
New Testament is that it consists of demonstrably errant
and fallible books chosen and canonized by a corrupt
Catholic Church. It was the Roman Catholic Church that selected
and canonized the books of the New Testament. It was not
God Most High who did so.
All ancient New Testament manuscripts, of whatever
text-type, in whatever language, from whatever location,
whether fragmentary or full, were copied and passed
down by Catholic scribes--whether Roman or Byzantine--
or some other branch of the Catholic Church. Choose
whatever ancient manuscripts you like; they arrived via a
corrupt Catholic Church, with it's official seal of approval.
Like it or not, mainstream Christian, you are using the
Catholic New Testament. Even the titles given to the four
"canonical" gospels are simply a tradition of the Catholic
Church. Those four gospels were originally anonymous,
and the current names they bear were an afterthought
tacked on by the Catholic Church to give these four
works a boost over their competition in the battle for
universal acceptance. Irenaeus also stresses the unity of the Old Testament and the Gospel. In the final volume, Book V, Irenaeus focuses on more sayings of Jesus plus the letters of Paul the ApostleThe purpose of "Against Heresies" was to refute the teachings of various Gnostic groups; apparently, several Greek merchants had begun an oratorial campaign in Irenaeus' bishopric, teaching that the material world was the accidental creation of an evil god, from which we are to escape by the pursuit of gnosis. Irenaeus argued that the true gnosis is in fact knowledge of Christ, which redeems rather than escapes from bodily existence. Until the discovery of the Library of Nag Hammadi in 1945, Against Heresies was the best-surviving description of Gnosticism. According to some biblical scholars, the findings at Nag Hammadi have shown Irenaeus' description of Gnosticism to be largely inaccurate and polemic in nature Though correct in some details about the belief systems of various groups, Irenaeus' main purpose was to warn Christians against Gnosticism, rather than accurately describe those beliefs.
The Catholic Church, by accepting the Hebrew Bible in its
literal interpretation, and by not including the fact that
the gods the Jews worshipped were satanic beings, continued
to mislead the general public by promoting the tribal god
Jehovah – Yahweh Ildabaoth the Demiurge as the Supreme
Being.
The Church then set about establishing a political and
religious empire based upon Old Israel’s model for living
and blended Yahweh Ildabaoth the Demiurge in with the
teachings of god Mithra etc. Emperor Constantine and his
coherts in Rome worshipped many evil gods, which they
blended together as one god in the Orthodox Jewish and Roman
Catholic Canon. Only the Christian Gnostics stood in their
way. It was the Gnostic Christians who taught the teachings
of Jesus (Yashua) and tried to preserve the writings written
by his followers. These heroic people were deemed ENEMIES
OF THE STATE OF ROME AND THE NEW JEWISH AND ROMAN ORTHODOX
RELIGION. The Gnostics quickly found themselves viciously
denounced as heretics and their sacred books were banned
burnt by Roman autoriites. Thanks to the miraculous
discovery of several Gnostic scriptures at Nag Hammadi in
Egypt, just fifty years ago, we can gain a better insight
into the Gnostic Christian communities of the
early centuries AD.
In Gnostic work uncovered at Nag Hammadi called The
Apocalypse of Adam, which is an enlightening account of the
creation story of Adam and Eve that dates back from the
first century, we find an account of a statement allegedly
made by Adam. In this account he states that his creator
was an evil god and that the original creation of man did
not occur by these evil agents but by highly enlightened
beings known the “Watchers” who took direct orders from
OUR HEAVENLY FATHER who is the eternal GOD and Jesus Yashua
long before he incarnated in his physical body. Adam claims
that mankind resembles the beautiful “Watchers” and not
the “Fallen Watchers” who we call the Nordic Aryan Alien
“Fallen Watchers” today.
WATCHERS VS FALLEN WATCHERSClick here: The Book of Enoch: The First Parable: Chapter XL
The original “Watchers” were good entities. They are
what we would call “Guardian Angels” today. They were
the creators of our three dimensional world and of THE
ORIGINAL HUMAN BEING ON EARTH, and took direct orders from
Jesus (Yashua) long before he incarnated in human flesh. A
group of these “Watchers” fell and became known as the
“Fallen Watchers” who came to follow an evil entity
known as Satan.
These evil gods were known as the “Shining Ones” and
are the same beings the New Age call “Light Beings”
today. The Elohim would appear as agents of god El and were
given the title of angels in the Old Testament. The word
angel is a more recent version of the original word, which
meant AGENT OF A GOD OR THE GODS. -
ixthis
Shanagirl,
Your comments contradict ...
"The bottom line about the New Testament is that it consists of demonstrably errant and fallible books chosen and canonized by a corrupt Catholic Church. It was the Roman Catholic Church that selected and canonized the books of the New Testament. It was not God Most High who did so."
Please demonstrate your claims using academic and scholastic consensus.
1. The Canon of Scripture was not chosen by the "Catholic Church" but by the One Holy and Catholic Apostolic Church. The continuation of this Church is now known as Eastern Orthodoxy and not Roman Catholicism. You have made an incorrect claim right there.
2. God the Most High authorised the Apostles that what they bind on earth is bound on heaven so the Bishops of the Church have the authority from on high to select and canonise Holy Scripture.
3. Please demonstrate how the Gnostic book of John is the one that fell from the sky in lieu of all other books?
Did you even read the historical facts about this book?
The four original editions of this book are in complete contradiction to each other ...