Godrulz, admitting you didn't watch the video, but then still choosing to criticize it and it's author is pretty bad form, wouldn't you agree?
-Sab
Theology
by sabastious 136 Replies latest jw friends
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Black Sheep
The guy has only been studying theology for 70 odd years. What would he know that gonnutz doesn't?
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The Finger
My daughter could have studied History or English at University, but she chose Theology (Christian) and got a first class degree. She is now studying for her Ph.D. in Theology. She reads History and Philosophy and Politics one of her supervisors is the head of the English. She has a fairly broad knowledge The University recently awarded her a full scholarship with candidates applying who study many subjects. There are I think about 2-3 billion people who claim a belief in Christianity and are found in my walks of life, some in governments. I think its over 4 billion people of the worlds population believe in Christianity or are Jewish or Muslim and about 85% believe in God. I think Theology is relevant for today. Besides my son is studying for a Science degree with the hopes of becoming a Medical Doctor and so it makes for interesting conversation at the Christmas dinner table.
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godrulz
Fine, I watched the video and it was pretty much what I figured it would be after seeing a minute of it. I agree with a number of his points. He is not refuting Christianity, but making a case for my view related to the perseverance of the saints. Calvinists would use this loop hole that if one becomes an atheist, they were never a true Christian. As a free will theist, I reject OSAS (once saved always saved or POTS/unconditional perseverance of the saints). This is a big debate in Christian circles (JWs are hyper-not OSAS). Some people who claimed to be Christians were not actually regenerate believers, but nominally religious (and Christian as opposed to Muslim or Buddhist). Others were in fact born again (Charles Templeton...google him) and became atheists (tantamount to apostasy). So, this fallacy applies to the OSAS debate, not whether Christianity or atheism is the correct world view.
He also begs the question and assumes that there is no God to know or reveal Himself to man. If God is omnipotent (by definition and reality), He can communicate Himself to us in a written record and preserve it. IF there is no God, then it does become unreasonable. Jesus considered the OT to be the Word of God. He claimed to know God. People followed Jesus as the God-Man, Lord/Savior. After He died and rose again, hundreds testified to this space-time event. Now, hundreds of millions have come to know Him, not based on fallible humans, but the Holy Spirit directly dealing with us. People do preach and share the gospel, but this does not mean it is not truth from God that transforms lives.
Basically, the video is not persuasive about much and most of us understand the application of this logical fallacy and are not guilty of it (he responded to some misinformed people, possibly wrong Calvinistic types).
theoneminuteapologist (youtube/google) has good responses to atheists; Dawkins, Hitchens, etc. have been exposed as ignorant men on these things with specious arguments full of logical fallacies.
Genesis 1:1 simple, but profound cf. Jn. 1:1; Jn. 3:16 The bottom line is that God exists, Jesus is God risen from the dead. There are evidences for this, unlike the Flying Spaghetti Monster (another stupid argument). Blessed are those who have seen and believe. Even more blessed are those who believe despite not seeing with their natural eyes. Heb. 11:6 Faith is a factor, but it is not the blind existential Kierkegaardian leap of presumption in the dark. Believe that God exists and that He rewards those who seek Him. Those who suppress truth will still have to confess that Jesus is Lord in the end (Rom. 1; Phil. 2).
It is the fool (moral more than intellectual) who says that there is no God (Ps. 14:1).
He is there and He is not silent-Francis Schaeffer
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Nickolas
It is the fool (moral more than intellectual) who says that there is no God (Ps. 14:1).
On the basis of your posts in this thread alone, you seem to throw disparaging remarks around with abandon, godrulz. If someone sees things differently from you, he is a fool, a moron or a dope. Your words. You seem also to accuse others of ad hominem attacks against you when you employ them with considerable facility yourself. The real fool is one who takes the testimony of men at its face value. There's no doubt you truly believe what you believe, but that doesn't make it truth any more than what the 9/11 zealots believed was true, even if they were prepared to die and murder for it. If you are offended by being compared to that murderous lot consider this. They were so convinced that what they believed was true that they immolated thousands of innocents along with themselves to demonstrate it. Are you really that different from them? I don't think so. Take your beliefs onto yourself and try not to burden others with them, in particular those who don't want to hear them. This is a site of healing for most people, not an opportunity to troll for damaged souls who are vulnerable to a form of predation so very similar to what they escaped.
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godrulz
God's words, not mine (re: fool). He also laughs and scoffs at the mockers in derision (Ps. 2). You don't know who you are messing with. I see things differently that the majority of fellow believers. I do not consider those who embrace other religions or even atheism to necessarily be morons, but when they make stupid arguments or reject sound ones, then the shoe fits. As I said, the Hebrew word for fool here has more to do with moral than mental issues. There are smart atheists and stupid Christians. There are functional atheists living as though God does not exist while professing faith in God.
This site can provide healing and help/information. The fastest way to be healed is to meet the Healer, God Himself. Some ex-JWs still have some doctrinal interest. It is wrong to assume I am just here to troll for damaged souls, whatever that means. I am not an idiot and am actually informed about some things, especially my corner of the world that may be of interest to students of religion (this includes some atheists).
If I think a person does not merit the time of day, I skip their posts. Feel free to do the same with mine. I am a glutton for punishment and no truth does not run from error, so I try to give a fair hearing to everyone and way their words for merit or censure.
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thetrueone
Taken as a belief in god(s) you also then must believe in the inspiration of god(s) given solely by men themselves.
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godrulz
Huh?
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thetrueone
Where does the inspiration of gods come from ?
Is it for acquired power and control ?
Is to elevate personal status within are selfs ?
Is is to derive answers to unknowns ?
Whats your god and what is he or perhaps she going to do for you ?
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godrulz
Huh? First sentence is incoherent. Are you talking about God or us? The issue is whether God exists or not, not whether He is a wishful thinking concept with no possibility of reality. If there is a God, we are obligated to know and love Him. If there is not, then carry on with anything goes. God does provide answers, but this does not mean we invent Him for that reason (He exists and is not a figment of imagination).
Yahweh is God fully revealed in the Lord Jesus Christ. He died for us that we can have abundant and eternal life. He offers a reciprocal love relationship to those who believe and will wisely and necessarily judge those who reject Him.