Is Matthew 24 future or fulfilled?

by Vanderhoven7 29 Replies latest jw experiences

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  Vanderhoven7

  <<Who said our generation?>>

  The WTS of course...so that would be the current overlapping 1914 generation... whatever that means.

  <<These signs will be during the future Tribulation of Rev. 6-19 (Daniel's 70th week with gap of Church Age between 69-70) immediately preceding Armageddom/Second Coming/Millennium.>>

  The tribulation spoken of in Mt 24/Mk.13/Lu21 (which was unique, and never to be repeated) occurred in the first century and culminated with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Luk 21:20-24 says:

  20 But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand. 21 Then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains; and let them that are in the midst of her depart out; and let not them that are in the country enter therein. 22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

  So the great tribulation and wrath on Israel spoken about in Matthew 24, Mark13 and Luke 21 already occurred. No one now need worry abot fleeing Jerusalem to the Judaen hills or pray that their flight might not be in winter. Pregnant women need not be concerned; people on Judaen housetops need not bring an extra jacket with them in case...This was to be a local destruction; the Jews no longer need worry about being shipped off into all nations where they already are.
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  godrulz

  This does not fit Revelation at all. 70 A.D. is persecution/tribulation, but it should not be confused with the final Tribulation (Daniel's 70th week) before the visible return of Christ and His millennial reign. He talked about the signs of the end, not the signs of the first century. These are signs about His coming. He did not return in 70 A.D.! (nor 1914!).
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  shepherd

  Well, as Elijah mocked the Baal worshippers of old, saying, “Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened,” so the same words can be applied to Jesus.

  Whether the signs applied once upon a time or a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...or will apply in the future mists of time, at least people generally agree he ain't here now...except those who say it's invisibly...As for me, I think Elijah had a good point.
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  godrulz

  He came as a carpenter the first time and stood before Pilate (His first coming was in fulfillment of many prophecies centuries earlier). He will come again the Second time and Pilate will stand before Him as King of king, Lord of lords, Alpha and Omega, Judge, Lord God Almighty.
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  shepherd

  And the stars will dance, Angels will sing, and pigs will fly.
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  godrulz

  Every knee will bow, now or later (too late then), and confess that He is Lord/YHWH to the glory of the Father (Phil. 2). You can be at the Bema Seat of Christ with the saints or you can see Him at the Great White Throne judgment over 1000 years later. There are no second chances, no annihilation (WT errors). A big dirt nap is not an option either since atheism/humanism is also false.
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  sabastious

  What it *could* be (emphesis on could) is an outline of past end of the world scenarios. A friend of mine had this cool idea:

  We, as in higher technology/consciouness societies, have existed before and all have been destroyed by the SAME THING because nothing is left behind when the earth "decides" to kill us all. The earth is an oven that eventually explodes every X amount of millions of years. And every cycle there is a new sentient species to kill, along with just about everything else (except the turtles and allegators and sturgeon they have been here FOREVER!).
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  wobble

  Dear Van, I am interested to know what you think you achieve by simply ignoring the questions and observations that shoot your argument down in flames ?

  Do you think you will fool someone reading on here, that they won't notice your dishonest debating method ?

  Good luck with that.
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  godrulz

  Preterism relies on a wrong allegorical approach (subjective), whereas futurism is based on the normative literal approach to interpretation (that still recognizes symbols, figures of speech).
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  Vanderhoven7

  Shepherd,

  <<How did this produce your statement "The fact is that over a million Jews perished in Jerusalem...whereas Christians en masse fled the city."? It's the ABSENCE of facts that makes the result unknown. The first clear reference comes from the fourth century church historian Eusebius. Yes, hundreds of years later a Christian historian says it happened, and from that you conclude it's a fact?>>

  I have long assumed as historical fact that Christians fled to Pella en masse just prior to Jerusalem's destruction based on the writings of Eusebius. After your post and a little research earlier today, I realize this assumtion was wrong.

  Consequently, my usage of this with Wobble, as argument for the pre-70 writing of the synoptic gospels falls apart.

  Thank you.