New here

by Tuber 98 Replies latest jw friends

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  Tuber

  @Interested One: Shall do, but since I'm back in my home country, with my family (including stepmum etc), I shan't have much time to get online, so I'll use this thread until I leave and head back to the country in which I live and work.

  @ Anyone and Everyone: Bombshell was dropped, turns out she has been baptised nearly a year. This changes things significantly. One small upside is that she has bible teach, reasoning scriptures etc, a decent amount of the books lying around the house, which saves me being seen as getting too much info from apostate sources.
  
  She has given me two books to look through; bible teach, god's word or man's, and then two more recent pamphlets, both published in 2010- was life created? and the origin of life five questions worth asking. If anyone is familiar with those two pamphlets, and knows of any particularly horrible logic, or of any misquotes in them, please let me know- am going to look through them tonight, and will probably be consulting some of Richard Dawkin's works...
  
  She seems to be trying to convince me by making me doubt evolution and natural selection, big bang etc, use the gap created by that date to slip in creationism, and go from there.
  
  @Djeggnog- I only see my family two weeks out of a year- I am trying to make the most of the time I have with them, and that includes talking with my stepmother about where she is religously etc. I don't have the time to give you a response right now, and I apologise.
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  bohm

  Tuber: Use the search function. A user here (cant recall his name) made a very nice pdf where he debunked the crap out of the brouchures, there is also a thread with a lot of "funky" quotes, and with some self-flattery i did a thread with what i consider the most obvious misquote (and what i would properly bring up) a while back.

  If there is any argument in the brouchure you want some thought on, just start a thread with it! the good bit is that science scare the pants off djeggnog so it is likely to be left alone ;-).
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  InterestedOne

  Tuber - Funny I was just looking over the book "The Bible - God's Word Or Man's." One remark that jumped out at me was the following:

  Do you think the Bible is God's word, or man's? However you answer that question, consider this point: If the Bible is merely man's word, then logically there is no clear answer to mankind's problems. (Chapter 1, Paragraph 4)

  Really? They are saying you only have two options: either the Bible is true, or there is no answer to mankind's problems. I don't know if this bifurcation is worth mentioning to your stepmom because only you know the line of discussion the two of you are having, but I had to say something about it.

  Also, remember the JW's tendency to go all over the place with topics. Have you been able to maintain the topic you both agreed upon which was the name "Jehovah," or has that discussion ended?
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  Tuber

  She told me that particular book has been lent to her, that they aren't distributing it any more... wonder why?
  
  Yeah I saw that line too.
  
  She has written a whole heap of notes about the jehovah thing for me to read- but she gave me the pamphlets about creation and seemed particularly proud of them, since seem on the surface to be based on science, and since they have bibliographies.
  
  I'm letting the name issue rest for now, because I think that these pamphlets could be a great way to let her see the dishonesty of the WTS.
  
  I already pointed out in the origin of life booklet the way that they try to pit evolution against creation, and do it by talking about how cells first formed, which is actually abiogenisis, a seperate field- using the weighted pdf, helps me make sure I don't miss any bullshit.
  
  Her response was that since many people are poorly educated, they think that evolution is an explanation for the origin of life, so it's talking to them on their terms- she doesn't seem to think it's deceitful in any way...
  
  Going to have to start bringing up the misquotes in conversation...
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  InterestedOne

  Tuber wrote:

  Her response was that since many people are poorly educated, they think that evolution is an explanation for the origin of life, so it's talking to them on their terms- she doesn't seem to think it's deceitful in any way...

  My JW friend said the same thing when I pointed out problems in an Awake article. She referred to the masthead where it says it's written for the whole family. Somehow in her mind, being written for the whole family means it's ok to say inaccurate things. In your example, if the authors are writing to an audience that may not be educated on what evolution is and is not, then I would think the right thing to do would be to try to clear up the misunderstanding in language the audience might understand before moving on to make an argument. If, by "talking to them on their terms," your stepmom means allowing them to continue in their misunderstanding, I would ask why anyone would think this approach is helpful.
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  InterestedOne

  Regarding Dawkins, he uses a Watchtower book as an example in The God Delusion on pages 144-147.
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  Tuber

  Back from my trip...
  
  May start a new thread soon- feeling more than a little discouraged at the moment.
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  InterestedOne

  If you are up to it, I would be interested in hearing the main points you took away from your visit with your stepmom. I can understand the feelings of discouragement. The phenomenon of JW indoctrination is pretty amazing. I didn't give my recommendation on which books should take priority on your reading list, but I must say now that Steven Hassan's Combatting Cult Mind Control is at the top in my opinion. I think you should order it. It's a pretty quick read and articulates some key insights for people in this situation.
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  Tuber

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/214533/1/Back-from-my-trip-home