Are you serious?! you know, I was going to ask if ALL of the quotes were true because a few looked familiar so I was surprised that I had not seen the others. Shame on you Hairygoat if you are posting inaccurate quotes as actual quotes.
DON'T SPEND TIME WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES.
by Hairyhegoat 62 Replies latest jw experiences
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skeeter1
Please let us know if that was an actual quote or the gist of it. We don't want to appear like boobs if we use it as an actual quote and it wasn't.
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hamsterbait
Desirous -
The list is not made of word for word quotes.
I have read these statements myself in the magazines cited.
They have been quoted WORD FOR WORD on other threads here.
You are a Liar.
You disgust me.
HB
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WTWizard
First, I must reply to "No such statement"--these come right from the rags themselves! Anyone with the original rags of these dates can verify the statements for themselves--I would not trust in the reprints, since they will happily alter the statements they make just so they can claim never to have made them.
And yes, these statements are all true. Yes, they have adjusted the intensity from time to time. They have allowed limited family association with disfellowshipped children at times, and then returned to a hardline stand. This is part of the "new light" that keeps blinking. They use these situations as excuses to prevent the witlesses from ever having any fun. Class trip? Too worldly. Thinking of going for a math competition? Too worldly. And since when is hiking a sport? You hike to see things in areas where you can't access with a vehicle or to get up close to things, not as a sport (it does make good exercise, though).
It also fits the paradigm of stagnation perfectly. First, you cut off the association with the world. Then, you start cutting off the fun from within (anyone that has seen the roller-skate parties and picnics of the pre-1993 era die off can attest to that). You get notices from the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger--sometimes from letters that cannot be traced, sometimes from the Kingdumb Misery--warning people of anything that is fun because of an isolated incident where fornication and/or drug use resulted. These days, all there is are boasting sessions and field circus. People that do nothing else end up totally stagnant. And that is what the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger is trying for.
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No Room For George
Guys, gals, I don't think the OP's intent was to insinuate that the quotes next to the references were word for word from the WT's literature. I believe he meant to tell us all from the jump that the quotes were his own take on the messages delivered by the WT as located in the references he provided. Notice his opening statement.
These comments and the references to the old publications are a true find. Have a read of this and you will never become one of the JW'S.
The very fact that he distinguished, "comments", and "references", indicates that the comments were from him and were a result of what he read in the references given.
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nugget
This just shows how easily the organisation brushes off criticism. Rather than posting the original text to refute HHG statements a blanket statement is made that the comments are untrue. I suspect the original quotes cannot be posted because they would support HHGs assertions.
Having been in the organisation for over 40 years I know that great effort is made to keep witnesses seperate from non witnesses. After school clubs, worldly friends and association with non JW relatives are all discouraged. Older publications are more ascerbic than some later statements because the society has become more aware of the litigious nature of the world and uses pressure to encourage conformity.
what would be interesting would be to see how the message is being conveyed in more recent publications.
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blondie
Children should get away from disfellowshipped parents as soon as they are old enough to leave. (Watchtower, 11/15/52, p. 703. )
WT 11/15/52 p. 703
Questions From Readers
In the case of where a father or mother or son or daughter is disfellowshiped, how should such person be treated by members of the family in their family relationship?—P. C., Ontario, Canada.We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai and in the land of Palestine. "Thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him to death with stones, because he hath sought to draw thee away from Jehovah thy God, . . . And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is in the midst of thee."—Deut. 13:6-11, AS.
Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God’s law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof.
God’s law does not allow a marriage partner to dismiss his mate because his mate becomes disfellowshiped or apostatizes. Neither will the law of the land in most cases allow a divorce to be granted on such grounds. The faithful believer and the apostate or disfellowshiped mate must legally continue to live together and render proper marriage dues one to the other. A father may not legally dismiss his minor child from his household because of apostasy or disfellowshiping, and a minor child or children may not abandon their father or their mother just because he becomes unfaithful to God and his theocratic organization.The parent must by laws of God and of man fulfill his parental obligations to the child or children as long as they are dependent minors, and the child or children must render filial submission to the parent as long as legally underage or as long as being without parental consent to depart from the home.Of course, if the children are of age, then there can be a departing and breaking of family ties in a physical way, because the spiritual ties have already snapped.
If children are of age and continue to associate with a disfellowshiped parent because of receiving material support from him or her, then they must consider how far their spiritual interests are being endangered by continuing under this unequal arrangement, and whether they can arrange to support themselves, living apart from the fallen-away parent. Their continuing to receive material support should not make them compromise so as to ignore the disfellowshiped state of the parent. If, because of acting according to the disfellowship order of the company of God’s people, they become threatened with a withdrawal of the parental support, then they must be willing to take such consequences.
Satan’s influence through the disfellowshiped member of the family will be to cause the other member or members of the family who are in the truth to join the disfellowshiped member in his course or in his position toward God’s organization. To do this would be disastrous, and so the faithful family member must recognize and conform to the disfellowship order. How would or could this be done while living under the same roof or in personal, physical contact daily with the disfellowshiped? In this way: By refusing to have religious relationship with the disfellowshiped.
The marriage partner would render the marriage dues according to the law of the land and in due payment for all material benefits bestowed and accepted. But to have religious communion with the disfellowshiped person—no, there would be none of that! The faithful marriage partner would not discuss religion with the apostate or disfellowshiped and would not accompany that one to his (or her) place of religious association and participate in the meetings with that one. As Jesus said: "If he does not listen even to the congregation [which was obliged to disfellowship him], let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector [to Jehovah’s sanctified nation]." (Matt. 18:17, NW) Hurt to such one would not be authorized, but there would be no spiritual or religious fellowshiping.
The same rule would apply to those who are in the relation of parent and child or of child and parent. What natural obligation falls upon them according to man’s law and God’s law the faithful parent or the faithful child will comply with. But as for rendering more than that and having religious fellowship with such one in violation of the congregation’s disfellowship order—no, none of that for the faithful one! If the faithful suffers in some material or other way for the faithful adherence to theocratic law, then he must accept this as suffering for righteousness’ sake.
The purpose of observing the disfellowship order is to make the disfellowshiped one realize the error of his way and to shame him, if possible, so that he may be recovered, and also to safeguard your own salvation to life in the new world in vindication of God. (2 Thess. 3:14, 15; Titus 2:8) Because of being in close, indissoluble natural family ties and being of the same household under the one roof you may have to eat material food and live physically with that one at home, in which case 1 Corinthians 5:9-11 and 2 John 10 could not apply; but do not defeat the purpose of the congregation’s disfellowship order by eating spiritual or religious food with such one or receiving such one favorably in a religious way and bidding him farewell with a wish for his prosperity in his apostate course.
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garyneal
marking, for what it is worth
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blondie
"But in any case, there is no reason to listen to a disfellowshipped child or mate if such one attempts to justify himself or endeavors to sway the faithful one to his way of thinking and acting. Nor should he be listened to regarding objections as to the handling of his case by the judicial committee. If he wants to appeal his case he should go to them, not try to appeal by pleading his case with those not elders."
(Organization for Kingdom-Preaching and Disciple-Making, 1972, p. 173)
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blondie
"Jesus encouraged his followers to love their enemies, but Gods Word also says to "hate what is bad." When a person persists in a way of badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of his make-up, then in order to hate what is bad a Christian must hate the person with whom the badness is inseparably linked. Indicating that Jesus did not mean for us to love the hardened enemies of Jehovah, David expressed this God-approved attitude: "Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies."-Matt. 5:44; Amos 5:15; Ps. 139:21,22.
WT 7/15/61, p. 420