No way! "Testing" a sister? OMG. As an outsider, just when I think I've heard it all... I hear something more unbelievable like that. Is this common?
Elders who conduct judicial comittees are creepy & perverted
by jambon1 49 Replies latest jw friends
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designs
It happens. Elders are taught to set up brothers and sisters who they think are becoming Apostste it boils over into all areas from there.
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cult classic
Elders who conduct judicial comittees are creepy & perverted
This statement does not apply to all elders. Many are "serving" out of a sincere desire to help others and have absolutely no untoward interest in the sex lives of others.
Although it is probably the least healthy way to help someone stay "morally clean".
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aSphereisnotaCircle
The society is just like the catholic church in that it views adult/child sex as equal to adult/adult sex.
In other words, they think a child can consent to sex and be just as guilty as the adult.
An 8 year old family member was assaulted over a prolonged period of time by a 15 year old elder son.
The first thing the elders asked the girls parents was "do you think she could have seduced him?"
and among other things, they asked the 8yo child "did you like it?"
We were close with another JW family, great kids, dad was an elder and beat the wife and kids on a regular basis, and the whole congo knew about it, it was just that obvious.
It came to light that the dad had been having sex with the oldest daughter since she was 10 years old, she was 16 at that time. The elders disfellowshipped both for immorailty. then they DFed the Mom because she would not obey them and stick with her hubby. She grabbed the kids and ran, she was DFed for "willful disobediance".
Any poster on this forum who thinks they can remain an elder and "help people" is seriously dissilusioned and harming people.
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Violia
Sphere and designs and all
I can't tell you how much I appreciate the honesty you have come forward with. Some of the newer apostates may never have seen these behaviors b/c the wts has had to clean up its act a bit. There are just too many walk-ins who know this is not how things should be handled and go to the police, despite the Org. telling them not too.
BTW, that LIST THING does exist. 26 yrs after an elder seduced me at age 15, the congo did remove him and put him on the list. All that saved me was it was clear I did not masturbate, so I was inexperienced . I still find it hard to believe you can talk about a 15 yr old girl like that.
I have more but without names, not sure how much good it would do.
yes they do or did Sting operations, they set folks up. they test the sisters if they think they are immoral etc, they lie, they stalk folks .
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Violia
also, I was told the wts does not encourage confession and forgiveness. The reasons are that in the past some have confessed to I guess crimes and then brought civil suite's against the person . I think it is very healing if someone is indeed truly sorry and they confess it does help another person heal. But I was told it was not encouraged to talk to the person who committed an offense against, even if you both stayed in the congo. I would think Christians could talk ,b/c confession and forgiveness do help the healing.
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Quendi
@ASphereisnotaCircle:
You wrote: "Any poster on this forum who thinks they can remain an elder and 'help people' is seriously disillusioned and harming people."
I couldn't agree more. Yes, I have known some elders who were truly concerned for the welfare of their fellow Witnesses. However, I have to say that in my thirty-five years association with this cult, I could number those elders on the fingers of one hand. The elder arrangement was supposed to be an improvement on the old congregation servant body setup. Now, after forty years' implementation what can be said about it? It is an abject failure. The same goes for the judicial committee institution. It has done nothing but wreak havoc and harm among the rank-and-file.
Don't think it is just women who are abused and humiliated in these star chamber proceedings. My experience was very much like the ones discussed on this thread. I was asked every kind of embarrassing question. I confessed and asked the elders to help me recover spiritually. Instead, I was disfellowshipped, shunned, and given absolutely no encouragement. Every request for reinstatement was denied as the judicial committee invented excuse after excuse. The denials had nothing to do with the original offense, either.
I don't mean to make light of Violia's trauma or that suffered by others by comparing mine to those situations. I only want to make the point that there is nothing wholesome, scriptural, or good about this cult's way of handling personal problems. Many of these elders are the 'wolves in sheep's covering' Christ warned us against. If you have left the organization, stay out! If you are still in, get out! You'll be much better off.
Quendi
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Violia
Quendi
I am not carrying a cross behind me .I know others have been hurt and don't see myself as a martyr. I see myself as one of the unfortunate folks whose boundaries were not respected . there are so many of us. boundary violations mess you up badly. I have spent the last 23 yrs in therapy trying to piece my life back together. I have just had to wait for the memories to surface, I can't force them. They come in pictures.
Your experience is yours and just as valid as anyone's. I have had a lot of say on this thread but the thread is for all who have something to say about the way JC"s are conducted. I'm sorry they treated you that way, the rules are supposed to be if you are repentant and ask for help -they are supposed to help you. I know they don't even follow their own rules.
I know I am saying a lot, but I have just sort of finally gave myself permission to speak.
There a lot of us, what I call the walking wounded.
We can all recover but I could not have without therapy. I don't usaully talk about this b/c my life is not just about this. This is just one part of my life, therapy. It has taken a while to work through all of it b/c I have a life like everyone else and one can only think about these things for so long and then you need a break.
One last thing, once your boundries have been violated it tends to happen over and over again. You just have no clear idea of what boundries are and so tend to get hurt again and again. The folks who do these things look for this, they pick their victims. They know what to look for. It took me quite a while to realize this.
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gubberningbody
It really depends on who is on your committee. I was a pioneer for 15 years, an MS for 9 years and an elder for 15 years. I served on many committees. The problem lies in the fact that most elders don't have the intelligence, sensitivity or training to properly handle these things.
Nevermind the fact that I'm an agnostic now and I believe the Bible to be revisionist one-sided history (especially with the first 5 books), but I never was on a committe where uncomfortable details were elicited.
I know I didn't want to know about any of that.
What I wanted to know were the circumstances which led up to the pornea so I could help them to understand their own unconscious decisions.
I would often meet with a major pause when I'd ask the question:
"Do you have the wherewithall to avoid being alone with a member of the opposite sex?"
Then I'd say:
"Do you know why you're having such a hard time answering this question as simple as it is?"
It's because you unconsciously want to create circumstances which will allow you to justify your own victimhood. Guess what? We'rte all weak. I can't cuddle naked with a supermodel and not do anything. What you have to do is break the chain at the point where it's easiest to break it.
We're walking through the scenario leading up to the pornea so you can examine your own unconscious thought processes.
Of course the language I used above isn't exactly the language, but that was the way things went.
Sometimes people would imagine they'd committed something of a judicial nature when they hadn't.
I'm sure the unregulated and untrained and unobserved aspect of all this fosters abuse, and I also now believe that the secretive unobserved nature of the whole thing is unscriptural and lacking in precendence in the Bible, but it's easier to see this now that I've left.
I did leave BTW because of this witch-hunting and abusive quality which seemed to prevail more and more and finally entered into my own congregation. I had no choice but to leave.
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mummatron
((Violia))
I was in a situation as a teen where I was sexually assaulted by a gang of teenage boys. I was very lucky in that I was able to escape before they were able to rape me. It is not something I like to talk about and I found it incredibly humiliating just dealing with the Police. I'm glad the elders weren't involved. I cannot begin to imagine what you went through.
This has made me realise why there was all the counsel during the service meetings in the early to mid 90's regarding repressed memories. The WTBT$ were claiming that the R&F needed to avoid "Worldly" therapists who may encourage "false" memories by the use of suggestive language and questioning methods, and that these methods were one of Satan's tools for bringing reproach upon Jehovah's good name! How I wish I realised at the time why they were saying these things. I feel sick, ashamed and disgusted that we were made to swallow this trash.
My cousin's JC which ended in her being DF'd for lying was incredibly perverse. She was 17 and was talked into sleeping with her UBP studying boyfriend by him at his house one day. It was premeditated as he'd bought condoms in anticipation. She was overcome with guilt and confessed to the elders. They believed his word over hers when he denied it. As she wasn't pregnant they wanted proof that it had actually happened so were going to make her have a gynaecological examination to prove whether or not she'd lost her virginity. My uncle put a stop to it, only because he himself was an elder and was able to influence the JC, and thus my cousin was DF'd for spreading lies and defaming the "good name" of said UBP.