Honesty-
Isn't your recommendation a bit of wishful thinking. There are demonstrably 10 different versions of the 'Real Jesus' floating around on this site from Believers who all claim to know the 'Real Jesus'.
I'm new here..... Studying with the Witnesses
by PenelopePaige 160 Replies latest jw friends
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Chariklo
If you were to become a JW it would not be too long before he would be showing and telling you the same things you have heard on this website.
If the congregation found out that he was "opposing" 'Jehovah's organization' the elders would tell you that he is a great danger to your spirituality.
Before long, you would be telling the elders your innermost thoughts and your husband would feel very neglected.
Soon afterwards, your marriage would FAIL because the trust that you had treasured with your husband would be GONE.
In all fairness, that is not always the case. I was talking just an hour ago t6o a JW who was baptised 20 years ago. She's been a pioneer for some time. Her husband was against. She told me how a long time, old-style JW told her to go away with him for a weekend, spend it on their own in a hotel, miss the meeting, and make sure their relationship was rock solid. When they came back, she continued with the JW's and he allowed her to do so, while not believing. Last year, he was baptised.
I've spoken to many other JW's with similar stories. So, it's important to realise that there are personal experiences on both sides of this question. The lady I was talking to is very happy indeed.
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nancy drew
No matter what anyone says on either side of the issues something that is absolutely true is that you cannot openly disagree with the organization because if you are a baptized witness and you say to another witness that you have doubts about something the org says and you question whether it comes directly from god you will be summoned to a meeting with two elders to see whether theres a problem or not.
I know it happened to me and i was told that these thoughts would constitute apostasy. Now if this doesn't bother you and you are happy never questioning just being told what to believe under threat of being a "heretic" with serious consequences than just sign up and pack up your brain and put it into storage.
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reslight2
Also, their founder, Charles Taze Russell, was into pyramidology..in fact, that is where he arrived at the date 1914. Look up his name on the internet and you will see that he is buried inside a pyramid shaped tomb!
It is good that one look into the history of the JWs, but unfortunately, much that you may find on many websites will mislead you; most JWs, having little knowledge of the history of the Watch Tower in the days of Russell, when presented by many things on websites may be easily deceived by such presentations. Many things have been distorted, misrepresented, quoted out of context, misquoted, etc., all to make things appear other than the actual facts.
Charles Taze Russell actually did not believe in the Jehovah's Witnesses! He preached against such sectarian authoritarianism. Additionally, his main message was almost the opposite of that preached by the JWs, espectially regarding Armageddon, the ransom for all, the parable of the sheep and goats, etc. It is, therefore, incorrect to think that Russel founded that which he did not believe in, and that which he preached against.
See:
A List of Links regarding the claim that Russell was the founder of the JWs:
http://ctr.reslight.net/?cat=484
Lists of links regarding Russell and Jehovah's Witnesses:
http://ctr.reslight.net/?cat=32
http://ctr.reslight.net/?cat=32&paged=2
Charles Taze Russell believed that the Great Pyramid is God's Stone Witness in Egypt, if that is what is meant he was "into" pyramidology. Many use the expression "into" and use the word pyramidology to make it appear that Russell "into" some form of spiritism, demonic occulitism, astrology etc., when he was not.
For links regarding Russell and the Great Pyramid, see:
http://ctr.reslight.net/?cat=14Russell, however, did not arrive at the date 1914 from the Great Pyramid, although the Great Pyramid confirms that date. In 1876, Russell accepted Barbour's conclusion that the Gentile Times were to end in 1914 -- Barbour arrived at that date, however, from the Bible; God's Stone Witness only confirms that date. The Biblical study of the Great Pyramid as done by Barbour, Russell, and the Edgars, however, has nothing to do with any kind of demonic spiritism, astrology, occult practices, pyramid power, pyramid incantations, etc. To me, the evidence is overwhelming that the Great Pyramid is indeed God's Stone Witness in Egypt. It is not, however, a matter that Russell tried force others to believe -- Russell, unlike the JW leadership -- allowed others to form their own conclusions without condemning the brother or sister for doing so.
http://gp.reslight.netGo to the Rosemont Cemetery in Pittsburg, and you will see that Russell is NOT buried in a pyramid shaped tomb. Rutherford did have a pyramid monument built several years after Russell died, but that monument is not a tomb. No one is buried there. Nevertheless, it is not the fact that Russell is not buried in that monument that is important. What is important is that those who make such statements are (1) misrepresenting the facts to serve further misrpresentation by (2) implying something sinister by means of their false claim that Russell is buried in or under a pyramid. The most I could say that could possibly be wrong about that monument is that was an extravagant use of funds that could possibly have been used to better advantage, if the funds had been actually used to further the glad tidings of great joy.
Here, however, is a picture of Russell's grave:
The most I could find that would possibly be wrong about the gravestone is that Russell never claimed to be the Laodicean Messenger -- that claim was made by Rutherford and others.
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Joepublisher1
Concerned JW writes: "no one on here will have a good word to say about witnesses and a lot of hearsay, exagerations, lies".
That is typical Watchtower-speak (I'm assuming PP that you have read the novel 1984?). The rank and file JWs learn very early on to use common phrases to de-value any of the information from x-JWs that EXPOSE their religion.
Also, you need to understand something here. Most x-JW's have issues with the WTS, not so much individual JWs. Why? Well, for the most part, most JWs are simply brain-washed with all that loaded language found in their literature, as previously alluded to in another post. They are simply following the lead of imperfect men who seemingly use the Bible to explain away their version of truth.
However, if you spend any amount of time on JWFACTS, you'll learn a VERY important fact. These men are simply trying to "interpret" the Bible as it fits in with their religion's tenents, although they will tell you that they are spirit-directed. Those two statements are mutually exclusive. If you are truly spirit directed, you will be guided to truly "understand" Bible verses. Unfortunately, the leaders of this religion have a dismal track record of mis-interpreting Bible verses and making change after change to the point of flip-flops on many matters of doctrine.
"Concerned JW" would have you believe by his comments (i.e. a lot of hearsay, exaggerations, lies) that the contributors to this forum can't be trusted. Well, I beg to differ. Why do I say that? Well, most - if not all - were previous JWs. Any many were either Ministerial Servants, Elders, Circuit Overseers, etc. So, the information you hear is not hear-say at all. It's right from the horse's mouth. Additionally, sites like JWFACTS contain numerous quotes from WTS literature. Again, not hearsay at all. Lastly they aren't exaggerations nor lies. JW's typically try to defame anyone who would expose the real truths of this religion. And, you know what? At one time, most of us would have and probably did the same thing!
What happened to us, that made us change? We either quickly (or slowly, as its difficult to remove the mind-controlling catch-phrases of decades of indoctrination), learned the REAL truth of our once thought to be, "truth". We learned all the things that the WTS said we shouldn't learn. Indeed, as you've been told, once you are baptized, you will NEVER be allowed to question anything in this religion. As soon as you do, JWs will mark you as one to avoid! So, all those loving JWs will turn into your enemies, just because you learned things that about JWs that bother your own conscience.
So, while many of us understand what you are saying, it's because we've been there. Because of the internet, you have no excuse for not learning as much as possible about this religion before signing on the dotted line!
And, Concerned JW, you can also learn a lot about your own religion. I've often put this challenge to any JW who would appear on an apostate site. Prove one thing wrong to me as it appears on the JWFACTS web-site. (btw: I've yet to see one JW do this successfully.)
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redhare67
Hi, good save your life and run, only believe your Bible and not WTTS, you have come to the right place,bye until
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diamondiiz
Concerned JW:
You don't think cults have structures? You think cult members can say and do anything against their leaders? Can JWs disagree with GB amongst their peers without fear of being talked to by the elders or if they don't stop speaking their mind they can be df???? Sure, I can see a difference if a member was saying that there is no Christ and elders would mark someone like that because after all you claim to follow Christ, but when someone doesn't belief in 1914 BS, the elders would mark and df the individual for basically saying GB are wrong.
This site isn't a closed site, and you can discuss anything if you like. Can you show me how many JWs forums you have that are this open? You can state your view or opinion here and you can present your evidence, people here can or may not listen to you but you have that chance while all JW forums are monitored that no one can even mention the real facts about wts past or their post will be deleted and the person will be booted out. Now if that doesn't smell of a cult I don't know what does.
As for your established religion making wts not a cult that is just nonsense as it's the characters of a group that make it a cult not being registered. You know, even Mexico allowed cults to exist in their constitution since 1918(?) and yet wts didn't register itself as a religion until 1989(?) but claimed to be a cultural society for some 70 or so years. Speaking of Mexico, it was GB that looked the other way when Mexican JWs were bribing army/political officials to obtain army cards without having to serve in the army while at the same time GB looked the other way when the Malawi witnesses were killed and harassed for not accepting a political card in one party state. Ya, WTS is God's channel on earth and everyone better accept this idea out of fear of loosing friends and possibly family because GB says so. And you're not a cult, ya ok.
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discreetslave
ConcernedJW
A cult can be a recognized & established religion by the law. That is what makes Jehovah's Witnesses & Mormons more dangerous. They use the established religion cloak to dispense their propaganda.
Peneolpe... The Bible warns of the AntiChrist the Religion of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society is just that.
Yes Jesus is on paper in the religion but he is not followed. The constant use of the term Jehovah & his organization pushes out the Christ.
(1 John 2:18-29) 18 Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as YOU have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort. 20 And YOU have an anointing from the holy one; all of YOU have knowledge. 21 I write YOU, not because YOU do not know the truth, but because YOU know it, and because no lie originates with the truth. 22 Who is the liar if it is not the one that denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one that denies the Father and the Son. 23 Everyone that denies the Son does not have the Father either. He that confesses the Son has the Father also. 24 As for YOU, let that which YOU have heard from [the] beginning remain in YOU. If that which YOU have heard from [the] beginning remains in YOU, YOU will also abide in union with the Son and in union with the Father. 25 Furthermore, this is the promised thing that he himself promised us, the life everlasting. 26 These things I write YOU about those who are trying to mislead YOU. 27 And as for YOU, the anointing that YOU received from him remains in YOU, and YOU do not need anyone to be teaching YOU; but, as the anointing from him is teaching YOU about all things, and is true and is no lie, and just as it has taught YOU, remain in union with him. 28 So now, little children, remain in union with him, that when he is made manifest we may have freeness of speech and not be shamed away from him at his presence. 29 If YOU know that he is righteous, YOU gain the knowledge that everyone who practices righteousness has been born from him.
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MrDarkKnight
Concerned JW - As a former elder I have to ask, why are you here? If you really believe everything you say, you would not feel a need to be here defending it. You would just obey the direction of the GB and leave matters in Jehovah's hands and go preaching from door to door. In fact, your position in the congregation is made tenuous by every post you make. Have you not been taught to avoid these types of sites? Why are you here? Why?
Do you REALLY believe or are you conflicted? Do your feel the guilt of being here already? It will eat you alive until you deal with the questions that aroused your curiosity enough to make you take a peek at what is going on here.
I really do hope you find the "truth."
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WTWizard
I can give you some insight on demons: Your right brain.
It all has to do with how you interpret things. The witlesses, and many other religions, will attribute things to demons. Quite often, however, it is actually your right brain interpreting things. This happens a lot when we are asleep or drifting into and out of sleep. If you are deeply pondering things, sometimes your right brain will get involved and we don't always understand how this happens. It is usually interpreted as "paranormal", when it is actually your right brain working on solving the problem. It can happen when we are bored, such as when we are driving on a long deserted highway. Taking drugs can also activate this (hence hallucinations), but I don't recommend it because it can ruin your brain and your liver.
There is also such a thing as hypnotic suggestion. You often don't even know you were in a hypnotic trance, but you actually were. You are told that, if you don't obey God, that Satan could start harassing you. This gives your right brain a post-hypnotic command. Later, when we do something that is "wrong", it will send the interpretation that something is wrong, usually with audio hallucinations. This is interpreted as Satan or demons attacking you. Nothing more than a post-hypnotic suggestion. Many cults use these to reinforce their doctrines.
Another thing that can be interpreted as demons is unexplained noises. Many things can do this, including plumbing noises, thermal expansion and contraction, animals running around, and even electronic equipment that hums (whether it is normal or is malfunctioning). Rather than finding out what is making the noise, people that are hypnotically programmed to believe that demons are attacking them (or will if they don't do what God requires) will assume that it is the demons. Usually, they are frightened into doing more. This usually stops the "attacks", or at least until the next time the actual source comes back into play. At which point, they need to find another "problem", or step up their service a bit (or more than a bit) more, to stop it again until the next time. Of course, if you actually know what is causing such noises, you realize that demons are not involved.
And, if you really believe demons are out to attack you, ask whether the demons attacked you before you started studying and have they stopped since you started studying. Be objective--it is easy to interpret events as "demon attacks" that were in fact normal incidents and continue to this day. Chances are good that it is their right brain that is creating these signals--even in psychics and people deeply into spiritism. Such people have trained their right brains to give these signals, and sometimes they take drugs in addition to make such easier. Such can make it extremely difficult to reprogram their brains so things are back in balance--hence, their "demon attacks" continue.
As for people that occasionally dabble into spiritism, I believe the risks of getting your right brain way out of balance are close to zero. Especially if you analyze things, chances are zero. Only if you artificially put the left brain out of commission (using drugs) or if it shuts down (when you are about to drift to sleep) can the right brain dominate in this way, and usually the effects are temporary and quite normal. I suggest doing deep scientific research on hypnosis and right brain activity--there is a good scientific explanation that the religions are trying to discredit so they can gain control of your life.
Fair warning: Joining the Jehovah's Witlesses will not solve the problem. If you are currently experiencing this right-brain imbalance, accepting a hypnotic suggestion that demons are responsible might temporarily relieve the symptoms. But, you will forever be tied to doing more for "Jehovah" in order to keep these things at bay. As soon as you slow down, your right brain is going to send a subconscious signal to initiate another "demon attack" (which is nothing more than a post-hypnotic suggestion). Or, you might get such signals in response to normal situations, and interpret it as you are not doing enough. Which means you need to step up the activity for Jehovah in order to relieve the symptom, and that becomes as bad as an addictive drug. You will be kept frightened to do your own research.
Do you want to be addicted to something like that? If so, you have found your perfect religion.