A simple way to tell God probably doesn't exist (page 3)

moshe

wouldn't He be able to deal with electron problems and give a simple sign?

God, the omipotent would give HUGE signs, just to make sure nobody missed the point.

Sam Whiskey

Moshe, there's the proof! The man in the moon...LOL.

Seriously though, I'm too busy to argue the idea that there is no God, when clearly, there is...

Carry on in your pointless bantering.

breakfast of champions

'If there is a god, he sure hates people. That's all I can say.' -Kurt Vonnegut

glenster

I recommend "How To Think About God" by Mortimer Adler.

bohm

The reason why this argument works is perhaps best illustrated by Feynmans 3 steps:

Get idea(s)
Derive implications
Observe nature, see if they support idea(s).

So we get:

Do (biblical) God exist or do biblical god not exist?
- IF God do not exist, THEN we can be CERTAIN he will NEVER give us unmistakeable signs, answer prayers, etc.
- IF God do exist, THEN he MAY give us unmistakeable signs, answer prayers, etc. (or he may not)
God DO NOT answer prayers, give unmistakeable signs, etc (say it aint so)

Both ideas are compatible with evidence. But since "god does not exist" is the more narrow explanation, this observation make us FAVOR gods non-existence over his existence.

how definitive the argument is depend on how likely we think it is God would not give us clear signs, but we must accept this as evidence which favor Gods non-existence over his existence unless the implications 2a,2b are a-priori wrong (and i would like to see an argument for THAT!)

Violia

Just joining in with a thought or two. In the Bible it is said God loved David. I think the idea that God loves everyone equally probably isn't supported-at least by the OT.

I have received answers to prayers directly . The two times I recall this happening the help I need came swiftly and each time it was a situation I could not help myself out of .

I have no real doubts God exists but do wonder if He is a personal God. I also don't see God bound by any rules man has set up to determine His existence. I don't know why He isn't' sending big smiley faces across the sky to just say " hi" to all of us, but I don't blame God for the conditions on the earth. I think man has done an excellent job of mucking it up.

I know the wts says that God has not communicated directly with mankind since the Bible was written. I am not sure where the support for that it. I think it is quite possible He does communicate with man in simple ways every day. He may use angels, His spirit , other people etc to help us .

There is not a level playing field on this earth. We are born into a good home or a bad home. We live in a country that gives us some freedoms or we were born somewhere where there is a caste system and we are an untouchable. That is man abusing man and I do not see that as God's fault.
When or if He fixes things , I don't know either. I use to think He would fix things at Armageddon, but John may have been smoking crack when he wrote Revelation for all I know.

poor places

Sabastious,

I'm not saying that just because God doesn't give me a sign, I don't believe in him. I'm saying that I don't believe in him because he doesn't give a lot of people a sign. There are tons of believers who have to struggle with their faith because they haven't been given a sign. If the God of the scriptures exists, his existence should be obvious. Then everyone would believe in him, and there wouldn't be conflicts between Christians and Muslims, etc. He should be telling us directly what he wants. Again, if he was omnipotent, why wouldn't he? I feel like this is an unanswerable question for believers.

poor places

Breakfast of Champions,

I'm a Vonnegut fan and I love the quote. His books offer much-needed comic relief for those who have been oppressed by religion. Especially Cat's Cradle, for me. I take it Breakfast of Champions is your favorite?

sizemik

I think the idea that God loves everyone equally probably isn't supported-at least by the OT.

As a parent I find it an anathema, and flying square in the face of the very basics of justice, to treat my children differently or to bestow favour on one at the expense of the others, simply because I feel like it. And to then defend my postion by saying in effect "I don't have to answer to anybody for my actions" . . . and "I am superior in wisdom so you have no right to question me" Even the OT claims the God of the Bible is "a lover of justice". Justice itself does not need to be justified . . . it's either present or it's not.

I don't blame God for the conditions on the earth. I think man has done an excellent job of mucking it up.

While it's true that misguided men cause problems for others . . . so much misguidance is religiously based . . . that God is not seperate from that problem either.

It also doesn't answer why we have Earthquakes, Tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes, volcanoes, forest fires, landslides, floods, epidemics, diseases, birth defects etc. These events have existed long before man can be accused of having a direct effect on climate etc . . . and are a natural consequence of the way life is configured.

As well as being problem "causers" . . . a great many humans devote their lives to relieving their fellowman of the effects of these strifes . . . disaster relief organisations, foreign aid organisations, medical research, firefighters, hospitals, ambulance staff, human rights organisations, scientists, environmental agencies, and so on and so on . . .

And God does precisely what? . . . has a book of promises published. And answers SOME peoples prayers.

I used to call on a young pentacostal when a JW . . . and he was convinced that Jesus filled the tank on his motorbike each week. Why would god not rather fill the empty bowl of a child in the Sudan? . . . that's what I would like to have explained. If there is an explanation that satisfies the basic requirements of Justice . . . then I will reconsider the existence of god.

Berengaria

I've never personally met my great, great, great grandfather from the south of France. Does that mean he didn't exist?
Ummmm nope, pretty sure he must have existed, you see the way it works is that your GGGGrandfather begat your GGGrandfather who begat your GGrandfather...............and so on. I know it's a wild concept, but kinda cool.

A simple way to tell God probably doesn't exist

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