A simple way to tell God probably doesn't exist (page 7)

poor places

Breakfast,

Thanks for tip on Mark Vonnegut. I'm going to check him out.

And yeah, I'm a big Wilco fan. You too? Poor Places is one of my favorites.

Qcmbr

If personal revelation is NOT proof of God's existence, can personal "non-revelation" be proof of his non-existence?

Actually PS personal revelation would be a proof of God's existence IF that revelation contained verification data (i.e. God tells me that tomorrow an earthquake will strike , measuring x at locatio p etc. or God tells me the secret to curing cancer or repeatedly gives me lottery numbers ) the problem with personal revelation is that it never says anything more than 'chin up' or 'I love you' or 'I am here' which is undistinguishable from self delusion (since Baal, Mithras and the Sacred Oak to name a few supernatural beings have said the same sort of things. Even the Hindu's have milk drinking statues which is a hell of lot more impressive than the xian prayer success rate.)

simon17

Yet it should be noted that no human in existence truly knows what it would be like to live in a world where God is obvious and everyone serves him the same (kind of sounds like a dictatorship to me). There's no reason to believe that the "God in the clouds" approach is the best one to take.

So what does that mean? That society would be worse if everyone knew who God was and served him? That doesn't make sense. That's like saying if a city's police force never was visible. They were rumoured by some. There were legends they once the police had arrested and prosectued some criminals. But there was no proof they really operated, then or now. Some people believed and tried to behave lawfully. Most didn't and made the place a mess. But don't criticize the police force for being absent, if they really existed. Maybe things would be worse if they actually made their presence known. Maybe the police really do punish people but we aren't able to hear about it. Maybe the police are secretly manipulating the lives of the criminals to make them internally regret the horrible conditions they are causing and are secretly helping out the law-abiders in indetectable ways.

Its nonsensical.

simon17

FHH: People who have prayers answered aren't special. I hear a saying quite often: "Everything happens for a reason." I sometimes think that life is like a game of Tetris: everything has to fit together. We don't understand now why someone dies and someone lives. I think one day we will. And who says we of the living are better off anyway? Maybe those that have passed on feel rather sorry for those us still struggling here.

Thats just very convenient to say. Many people claim god answers their prayers with promotions and money and opportunities. You are saying God doesn't operate like this. So are you saying those people are dillusional and God really ISN"T operating in their lives, even with them being so sure?

And then you still insist that he does answer YOUR prayers. Just on important stuff. But then have the audacity to say that other people (say a HIV kid or a starving child in Africa or a sex slave living through repeated rape as a teenager) are not having their prayers answered becuase maybe they're better off for it?! So yes, I think its very fair to say what is so special about you that you get your prayers answered?

mindmelda

I talk to a lot of people who never listen to me too. Sometimes it's justifiable. LOL

mindmelda

Oh, just for the record, these days I call it "meditation" and do it mainly for purposes of relaxation, centering and sanity, not to talk to the invisible realms of existence, wherever and whenever they may be.

Violia

SM

Yes I do agree that there are many people the world over who work hard to help others on an individual basis. I never believed what the wts said, everyone is evil except them. There are many who work tirelessly to help others. Despite I believe the good intentions of most people, people still are inured due to man's inhumanity toward himself. That is not God's fault.

I think I lean toward an impersonal God who created us. I think we may be able to get assistance and help from angels , etc. I can't prove any of this except to say that I was helped at least twice . I have never been helped when it was something I could do myself, which includes most things.

mindmelda

Strangely I do feel I get supernatural assistance on occasion now, but not when I was a JW. It's impossible to prove, but I have had many things happen to me that are positive with uncannily good timing.

ballistic

We shall be what we ahsll prove to be?

FlyingHighNow

And then you still insist that he does answer YOUR prayers. Just on important stuff. But then have the audacity to say that other people (say a HIV kid or a starving child in Africa or a sex slave living through repeated rape as a teenager) are not having their prayers answered becuase maybe they're better off for it?! So yes, I think its very fair to say what is so special about you that you get your prayers answered?

You are putting words in my mouth. I didn't say anyone's prayers go unanswered. I believe that they are answered in a way that will end up bringing the most benefit to the individual who is praying, people who are praying for the individual, people of the rest of the individual's immediate community and the rest of the world and universe. We often think benefit means immediate relief right here and now. But sometimes it does not. Evidently we don't live in a world where everything is meant to be completely fixed or repaired right now.

Everything is connected. One decision and resulting action by you or me or anyone, including God has a result/reaction that causes multiple chain reactions or ripples. So care has to be taken in how prayers are answered.

We all will die. We all will suffer at some point in this life we live out on earth. Being saved from death or rape is only be a temporary fix.

If you are going to pull a quote from me and respond indignantly, then read everything I said carefully. Free will is playing out all around us, all of the time. Our free will affects us. It affects others. The free will of others affects others and it affects us and our enviroment.

God doesn't always intervene the way we want him/her (or whatever God is) to. We are never going to know all the answers while we live here on earth. And who knows what will be granted us to know in the world beyond? The thing is, I believe in God or a Great Spirit who is intelligent. You don't. I believe in prayer and its results. You do not. I haven't a problem with your disbelief. I don't think it matters to God if you do not believe. God is love and loves all of his creatures and children. We live in a mess down here and none of us is completely sure why. But we do live in mix of blessings and messes. I believe there are ways he and others intervene. It is okay if you don't believe.

A simple way to tell God probably doesn't exist

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