I think it is fruitless to try to prove TO THEM that they're a cult. But it is immensely helpful TO US to understand that they are.
Discreetslave, Vizzini on the GB is priceless! I think he may have written the overlap doctrine.
Continuing to draw the line between cults and DESTRUCTIVE cults
by sabastious 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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discreetslave
@MrDarkKnight I feel you. Labels can build a wall especially if applied without proof to backup the claim.They misuse the term apostate. Scripturally I am not an apostate. They take the scriptures out of context to mean being against them.
I use the term cult because they fit the description by a cult expert. I came to view them as a cult while reading Hassan's book. I wanted out of the religion before this but I kept askig what if I'm wrong. Reading Hassan's book helped break the mental grip cults have on followers. To see their way of doing things is not special or from God released me. That is why so many suggest this book. It's like pulling the curtain on the Wizard of oz. This allowed me to truly love myself.
some excerpts
Pg 45 para.4 In some cults, members are systematically made to be phobic about ever leaving the group. Today's cults know how to effectively implant vivid negative images deep within members' unconscious minds, making it impossible for the member to even conceive of ever being happy and successful outside of the group. When the unconscious is programmed to accept the negative images, it behaves as though they were true. The unconscious mind is made to contain a substantial image-bank of all of the bad things that will occur if anyone should ever betray the group.
Pg 79 para 2 Since mind control depends on creating a new identity within the individual, cult doctrine always requires that a person distrust his own self. The doctrine becomes the "master program" for all thoughts, feelings, and actions. Since it is the TRUTH, perfect and absolute, any flaw in it is viewed as only a reflection of the believer's own imperfection. He is taught that he must follow the prescribed formula even if he doesn't really understand it. At the same time he is told that he should try to work harder and have more faith so he will come to understand the truth more clearly.
Pg 82 para.2,3 The cult member comes to live within a narrow corridor of fear, guilt, and shame. Problems are always the fault of the member, and are due to his weak faith, his lack of understanding, "bad ancestors," evil spirits, and so forth. He perpetually feels guilty for not meeting standards. He comes to believe that "evil" is out to get him. In every destructive cult I have encountered, fear is a major motivator. Each group has its devil lurking around the corner waiting for members to tempt and seduce, to kill or to drive insane. The more vivid and tangible a devil the group can conjure up, the more intense is the cohesiveness it fosters.
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MrDarkKnight
@discreetslave - I just bumped this book up on my reading list. The excerpts are fascinating. My parents both lack self-esteem. They were "herded" into the organization in the early '70s, the Witness boomer period. The external validation the JWs provide or withold is what keeps them both in there even though they had an "unscriptural" divorce (JW lingo).
For me to break lose I had to change the source of my validation from external to internal. The book you quoted explains why and now I understand the discussion on cults. I worked hard at being a JW and rising in the ranks because of external validation and the affirmation that I was indeed more righteous than those who did not. When I lost my position I felt the inevitable guilt that comes with the loss of that validation and constant reminder that I was a failure. To break free I had to allow myself to think and let be parasite living on the thinking of others or being under "mind control." I understand the need for this information much better now. Thanks.
I sent you a PM.
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discreetslave
@ DarkKnight Glad to be of help my brother. I am doing my best to give to all their food at the proper time.
For Lurkers does any of this sound familiar
Pg 64 para 2-4
In some groups, happiness simply means following the leader's directions,
recruiting a lot of new members, or bringing in a lot of money. Happiness is
defined as the sense of community provided by the cult, to those who enjoy
good status.
Loyalty and devotion are the most highly respected emotions of all. Members
are not allowed to feel or express negative emotions, except toward
outsiders. Members are taught never to feel for themselves or their own needs
but always to think of the group and never to complain. They are never to
criticize a leader, but criticize themselves instead.
Many groups exercise complete control over interpersonal relationships.
Leaders can and do tell people to avoid certain members or spend time with
others. Some even tell members whom they can marry, and control the entire
relationship, including their sex lives. Some groups require members to deny or
suppress sexual feelings, which become a source of bottled-up frustration that
can be channeled into other outlets such as harder work. Other groups require
sexuality, and a member who hangs back is made to feel selfish. Either way, the
group is exercising emotional control. -
unclescrizz
I dont think ive ever posted on this site, ive read alot of posts, but, keep to myself. I am an ex JW, Df'd. However, I have reached my limit of bull #hit about the witnesses. Doctrinal debates, personal experiences, fine. we are all free to have an opinion. but stupid slanderous crap, IM really getting sick of.
JW's a destructive cult? get friggin life. or a clue. Have people had bafd expereinces? yes. myself included. but the same goes for any group on the earth . any church for sure. your not tied to a chair and made to stay there. your not made to go thru the baptism process. you dont like it? diont do it. if your a child, as I was, you may have other issues to deal with as far as reality etc, but, again, this isnt any different in any other church.
My children are still JWs, and I can say, they are happy, healthy, productive and pleasant people, who are moral, trustworthy and kind. this is ALL due to the way we raised them, as Jehovahs Witnesses.
I cant give this site anymore of my time really. I respect Randy's intilect, and experience. BUt it really is filled with bitter, complaining people, finding anytihg and everytihng they can wrong with the WT. theres plenty wrong, you dont need to exagerate and make up crap.
JWS are NOT a cult, and not destructive. they are ahigh control, fundamental chriustian group. agree or not, fine. leave. speak about real things, not bull. I am sickened to see some idiot post a video on themain page about "abuse of the watchtower", a vid about a child very abused, apparently. I watched all three videos, I heard nothing of the watchtower . if i missed that reference, the point is, what does that have to do witht he watchtower? a child gets abused in every church and group in this world. every damn church has this issue. to my knowledge, I dont think the elders were allowingf this. its absurd. I understand the policy about child abuse"scandal" and all that. fine. BUT cmon. it simply makes everyone on this site look like exactly what the WT says they are, bitter, ex brothers beating their brothers, and have nothing better to do. Im sure ill get negative rsponse to this here. im not reallynintereste in discussing. just pissed off enough tto comment. thanks
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sabastious
unclescrizz welcome to the forum.
You seem to agree with me even though you don't say you do. You think the Watchtower is a "high control, fundamental Christian group" and that's a good way of describing a destructive cult.
If you like to read I recommend this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Combatting-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0892813113
The author was not a Witness and he recounts his story with the Moonies. There are many parallels, but you'll have to read it to see for yourself.
-Sab
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sabastious
My children are still JWs, and I can say, they are happy, healthy, productive and pleasant people, who are moral, trustworthy and kind. this is ALL due to the way we raised them, as Jehovahs Witnesses.
You said you are DF'ed. Do they associate with you?
-Sab
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sabastious
a child gets abused in every church and group in this world. every damn church has this issue. to my knowledge
Yes and the reasons for all the abuse between religious groups are similar: sexual repression. We need sex and when guilt is attached to it when we need it we essentially can lose our minds.
-Sab
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sabastious
it simply makes everyone on this site look like exactly what the WT says they are, bitter, ex brothers beating their brothers, and have nothing better to do. Im sure ill get negative rsponse to this here. im not reallynintereste in discussing. just pissed off enough tto comment.
This site cares not of the approval of the Watchtower and it's members.
I have a podcast that might help you with perspective on the people here:
-Sab