by The Quiet One 163 Replies latest watchtower bible
The doctrine of the Trinity is part of orthodoxy.
Oh really? The Jews and their High Priest didn't teach it. Jesus and the Apostles didn't teach it. Didn't become orthodoxy until 325 C.E. Didn't the bible warn about an apostacy from the truth?
Think About It
Yeah, Jim Jones and David Koresh had followers too. :-(
Yes, those crazy ideas have legs. It makes me think that if the WT 'reformed', you'd have plenty of congregations that would splinter off and use the old literature, but not accept the new literature.
"What denouncement, what orthodoxy."
If you were a JW today holding the beliefs of Charles Taze Russell you would be disfellowshipped in a heart beat.
Russell taught till the day he died that Christ's second presents started in 1874.
Rutherford continued to teach that until at least 1929 and it wasn't official until 1943 after he died.
Russell taught until sometime about 1906 that 1914 would be the END of armegeddon.
Russell was strictly opposed to organizations, celebrated Christmas and held that whose who do not believe in the particulars of what he was teaching, but believed in God and Christ, should be treated as Christian Brothers.
I could go on and on.
Peace
"The Jews and their High Priest didn't teach it. Jesus and the Apostles didn't teach it. Didn't become orthodoxy until 325 C.E."
"Though the Bible taught truth of the Triunity of God implicitly in both Old and New Testaments, the development and delineation of this doctrine was brought about by the rise of heretical groups or teachers who either denied the deity of Christ or that of the Holy Spirit. This caused the early church to formally crystallize the doctrine of the Triunity. Actually, Tertullian in 215 A.D. was the first one to state this doctrine using the term, Trinity."
That would be 110 years before what you claim.
Jesus said that he and the Father are one.
Look at Revelation 1:8 the Alpha and the Omega is Jehovah
Look at Revelation 22:13 the Alpha and the Omega is the First and the Last
Look at Revelation 1:17-18 the First and the Last is the living one who died and is alive for evermore.
When did the Father die?
Please understand that no one has said that Jesus and the Father are the same person but they are both God (Jehovah).
Peace
bob1999
Please understand that no one has said that Jesus and the Father are the same person but they are both God (Jehovah).
I thought you said you didn't agree with what I quoted from that website? That is what I quoted. I quoted that Jesus is Yahweh and Jehovah.
Bob- I can see why some believe Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, it would make understanding Revelation a lot more simple. After a fair amount of internet research, the best argument against this belief that I could find was that Jesus was the first to be resurrected to heavenly immortality and the last to be resurrected directly by Jehovah, and that was from Jw's! It seems clear to me that this belief cannot be proven directly from scripture without someone adding their own interpretation to it. I'm actually starting to believe that the Bible may be a contradictory and uninspired mess, so much so that people have had to invent the Trinity doctrine to try to make any sense of it. I mean no disrespect to your beliefs, though. I have one more point to make, if I may. You never even attempted to refute the reasoning in that personnification article I referred to earlier, you merely attacked the source by calling him a false prophet. This reminds me of the WTBTS.. *edit*- In case anyone has got the wrong impression, I'm not a follower of the 'false prophet' on the site I linked to, nor do I support any of those beliefs personally. I'm an agnostic looking for information on the Bible and other peoples beliefs. I merely found that the page I linked to made sense to me, I don't judge reasoning based on the source, but on its own merit.
bob-
Charles Russell was a Bible Student not a JW they were started 14 years after he died. A 'denouncement' is an Official statement in some publication by the JWs stating 'we denounce all of the teachings of Charles Russell' do you find anything like that in their publications.
Tertullian in 215 AD was the first to state this doctrine using the term Trinity. That would be 110 years before you claim.
There you go right there. Trinity wasn't taught in the 1st Century by Jesus and the Apostles. The Counsel to establish orthodoxy came 110 years later. Look it up in the history books.
Lot's of different ideas were starting to develop after the 1st Century. In 225 AD Hippolytus spoke, "Some of them assent to the heresy of the Noetians, affirming the Father is Himself the Son."
Think About It
