I see a connection in retrospect because there is some historical controversy as to whether it was in fact the Sanhedrin that influenced Roman law and implementations of execution. The Jewish Sanhedrin of the time as even Jesus acknowledged were a corrupt duplicitious gang.
The Ancient Jewish CROSS and the ancient Hebrew letter Taw
by brit-93108 72 Replies latest watchtower bible
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james_woods
You are actually saying that the Sanhedrin convinced the Romans to use a cross for executions???
I doubt that there is a shred of evidence for such a notion. But, even if they did, what did the letter Taw have to do with it?
EDIT to add - and why wasn't the inspiration for the Roman cross the Roman letter T?
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botchtowersociety
All existing alphabets trace their lineage to the Phoenicians/Canaanites. The alphabet concept has really only ever been independently invented once. Where it did not gain acceptance, we still have logograms/ideograms/pictograms in use.
The Roman T looks a lot like the Greek Tau and the original Semitic Taw/Tav.
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james_woods
Note that I have come to believe that the cross used in this story was most likely the Roman execution cross shaped like the capital T - that is, with no upper appendage above the cross piece.
But the reality is that we just cannot know for sure.
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brit-93108
You raised an interesting point, james_woods, leading me to further posit that perhaps the Sanhedrin was so economically powerful it was one of the biggest taxpayers in the kingdom. Keep manipulating the Jewish people into tithing, and we will fund your empire. I can imagine the choice of a cross, besides being a common method of execution, was a symbolic show of political solidarity between the Sanhedrin Roman benefactors and the Romans, morphing the t and T. Although pure speculation, actually a leap of logical argumentation, to me it's a far more eloquent argument than the Watchtower's methods of going from A to B through a twisted jumble of syllogisms? I mean, given they have no idea whether it's a cross or stake, they could have figured "we'll default with cross because of (similar arguments to Dr. Garza) and honor our founder who was inspired by the Holy Spirit to establish 'the one true religion' in this 'time of the end'!"
Yet no, they want to go contrary to historical facts, argue against historians just to create separateness perhaps at the expense of truth. Like the baptism questions in 1985 that subtly redirect one's dedication from Jesus Christ's to "God's earthly organization" (been a while, can't recite the change word for word), one could almost suspect they are determined to weed out those who want to stick strictly to scriptures at all costs and rather favor those adherents who will accept leaps of logical argumentation to get from A to anywhere "they" want to go.
If the cross was part of prophecy as the book suggests in the Amazon preview (where you may be able to read it all, for all I know, I didn't get that far yet), it is not an idol but a prophecy build by YHWH into the ancient and original Hebrew alphabet (which is a short alphabet). It proves that Jesus was executed, not by the Romans, but by Satan himself who bastardised the Sanhedrin and used them as puppets on a string in an attempt to destroy his perceived obstacle to God himself. The cross in that sense was intended as an ugly middle finger at God but was transformed by Christ into Satan's eternal tombstone. That is my candid observation here.
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Leolaia
The shape of an alphabet letter, or the use of this very basic geometric shape (the intersection of two lines) as a symbol, had nothing to do with ancient Roman execution practice. Also the paleo-Hebrew alphabet (which represented taw as an intersection of two strokes regardless of slant unlike the later Aramaic-influenced alphabet) did not die out "thousands years before Jesus"; it was still used in the Dead Sea Scrolls and in the coinage used during the Jewish Revolt in the first century AD.
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brit-93108
There is no evidence at all, Leolaia, that may have influenced the Roman method of execution? How far before Jesus's execution was the Sanhedrin in bed with the Roman government, and what subtle influence did these rabbis have on every facet of Roman culture? I'm fascinated to hear the ancient alphabet was found in the Dead Sea scrolls. Makes me wonder if there are more scrolls are to be opened that will reveal the scope and grandeur of outright selling out of the Jewish faith to the Roman Empire by its corrupt religious leaders to benefit their worldly treasures, an act of betrayal on an order of magnitude greater than Judas, betrayal of God, the Jews, everything good and righteous? I digress.
As an after thought, would not displaying a symbol of a cross deeply offend Satan, i.e. the finger is getting flipped back in his face? Now I really digress.
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botchtowersociety
The Romans used crosses because they were a convenient shape for a public execution. It has nothing to do with the letter "T'. They were used long before the Romans had any involvement with Judea (and crucifixion was used by others as well).
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Leolaia
Thank you, botchtower.
How far before Jesus's execution was the Sanhedrin in bed with the Roman government, and what subtle influence did these rabbis have on every facet of Roman culture?
Is this "just asking questions," or do you have your own notion that the Jews (teh Joos?) had such far-reaching influence? In fact, the Romans thought that Judea was a backward province and Judeans had ridiculous superstitions (much based on misunderstanding and ideology); they had even kicked the Jews out of Rome in the first century AD. Why should Jewish influence be so far reaching compared to Egyptian influence or Phyrgian, or Syrian, or Parthian, or Cypriote, or Cretan, etc., not to mention Etruscan and Greek influence? Whatever the case, this has nothing to do with Roman execution practices, which largely derived from their own native practices and crucifixion as practiced by Carthaginians in the Punic wars. Also it is anachronistic to identify the sanhedrin with the "rabbis" in the early first century.
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ziddina
Uhm, the "cross" existed in the Egyptian "ankh", symbol of life, long before the Christians came along... X's or crosses even existed in goddess worship as far back as 3,900 B.C. ["Language of the Goddess" by Marija Gimbutas, page 213, 218...], tho not as the "primary" symbol it is viewed as today...