FYI: Something is going on in Brazil that's interesting (page 2)

Gayle

thanks Barbara!! I hope the YouTube site will get up an English translation or English subtitles and any other additional languages possible. This is an universal issue.

Yes, religions can teach what they want. But others can expose and with media let all know how such religions 'really' teach before they go in.

It's good see this exposure of the WTS practices, popping up in continents all over. Especially for cultures that having a strong family network is a matter of survival and immediate social/emotional securities.

FatFreek 2005

"Prosecutor Nilce Cunha Rodrigues has taken on official representation of Sebastian Oliveira (Ramos) who, after being expelled from the religion was discriminated against by colleagues, friends and relatives, including his mother, in accord with norms of the Jehovah’s Witnesses ..."

I applaud the effort in Brazil, and while I wish it to be a worldwide effort, I can't see where it can be enforceable -- where there can be a real difference.

Picture, with me, the PO as he adjusts the microphone for his concluding announcements. "Effective today, Joseph Silva is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses. As you know, brothers, we can no longer encourage you, nor will we instruct you to avoid association with, or shun Joseph Silva or ones like him. I repeat, we are, at this time, not doing this. We must obey Caesar's law. We simply wish to remind you that your Christian obligation is not to us but to Jehovah through his word, the Bible. We remind you that when you get to your homes that you check your Bibles and the following passages [cite scriptures here]. After you prayerfully consider those passages, we encourage you to follow your Christian consciences in your behavior with people, the likes of Joseph Silva."

Back to business as usual.

Len

steve2

Nothing like the threat of an impending legal case to exercise the attention span.

One outcome could be that the Watchtower now "encourages" local congregations to be very careful how they word any discourse about specific ex-members and begin to frame disfellowshipping as 'the individual member's own personal decision on harmony with Scripture' - so, they begin to move away from top down rules to more subtle - but just as effective - "encouragement" for members to exercise their private consciences to stay clean. That way Mom can continue to ignore son and say in all truthfulness, "It's my own decision to no longer speak to my son based on my Bible-informed conscience".

This distancing of disapproval from "bosses" is not far fetched; italready happens in secular organizations that 'pay out' unsatisfactory employees. The organizations attempt to accomplish two things in one sanitized action: Get rid of the employee and minimize the likelihood of an unjusitifiable dismissal. organizations try and accompish that in a squeaky clean manner with very clear policies about not openly bad-mouthing former employees and never ever putting anything contentious in writing in the public domain. That's what Human Resources departments are all about.

flipper

Barbara- Thanks for posting this ! This is something that I hopes is done in other countries as well. This will definitely be interesting to see how this proceeds. Please keep us updated. Peace out, Mr. Flipper

AK - Jeff

I think FF2002 and Steve2 have hit the nail here. It will simply be a matter of how they 'frame' the matter to accomplish the same thing.

They have done this very well for decades with the flag salute, voting, military training and service. They change the approach to assure that they avoid litigation, but accomplish the ends to which they have always striven.

Still, with enough international pressure, cases like this one might have an eventual impact on the membership. They might 'use' the official position to do what their conscience has probably been instructing them to do all along - and show love and consideration to family members. When confronted by their choice, they will be able to fall back to the 'official position' stated wherever it is recorded.

This is not a flood, but it might be a small pinhole in the dike.

Jeff

Woody22

This is very good news for me to hear. I have been shunned for 31 yrs by my own children

who have children and grand children that I have never met. I wished this was happening

in Canada also.

Woody

straightshooter

Thanks Barbara for sharing this exciting good news. I was glad to read how Brazil is taking a lead against such unfair discrimination. I hope this sets the ball rolling in other countries to stop such outright discrimination by the WTS.

sabastious

Freedom of Assoication

Cool concept that's actually being implemented here.

-Sab

sabastious

I think this might be relevant:

source: http://digitalcommons.ilr.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1006&context=freedom&sei-redir=1

There is freedom of association and the right to organize in Brazil, but there are
certain restrictions. Freedom of association is also addressed in article 5, paragraphs (xvii)
to (xxi), of the Constitution:

- (xvii) freedom of association for legal purposes is fully guaranteed, association of a
paramilitary nature being prohibited;

- (xviii) the formation of associations and, in legally prescribed form, cooperatives does not
require authorization, any state interference in their functioning is prohibited;

- (xix) associations may only be compulsorily dissolved or have their activities suspended by
judicial order which, in the former case, requires a court order;

- (xx) no one may be compelled to join an association or remain a member thereof;

- (xxi) associations, when expressly authorized, may legitimately represent their branches in
legal or non-legal proceedings.

-Sab

mummatron

I echo everyone else here in saying I sincerely hope it starts a Worldwide prescedent. The EU Bill of Human Rights covers the same rights but so far it's not been taken up in the Court.

FYI: Something is going on in Brazil that's interesting

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