FYI: Something is going on in Brazil that's interesting

by AndersonsInfo 60 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • thetrueone
    thetrueone

    Hell, even non-religious families and groups can have pretty stringent "membership" rules.

    Yes of course but what is of importance is, are these groups privately denying membership or are the publicly and openly stating

    that this individual should be shunned even by their own family members for choosing another religion or if they have chosen a

    different sexual identity that a organization disapproves of.

    For example many religions Christian or otherwise disapprove of homosexuality, but they do not point at one individual and announce

    among the congregate, being that this person is involved with this behavior, therefore they should be shunned by all.

    You can go to many Churches or whatever and see homosexual couples sitting in the pues.

  • The Oracle
    The Oracle

    Thanks for posting this!

    Just thought I would check in to see what's happening in here.

    It's always nice to learn about pockets of humanity that recognize the destructive influence of this insignificant but damaging group.

    I appreciate the efforts of anyone who exposes the JW movement for what it really is.

    In other news - the real world is a wonderful place to live! Sorry I haven't been a regular contributor here, but there is so much to do when you have freedom!!

    Peace to all,

    The Oracle (a former mindless drone of the WT)

  • steve2
    steve2

    Yes of course but whats of importance is, are these groups privately denning membership or are the publicly and openly stating

    that this individual should be shunned even by their own family members for choosing another religion or if they have chosen a

    different sexual identity that a organization disapproves of.

    If you could prove that the JWs single out homosexuals for shunning you'd have a case, I suppose. However, as you know, the JWs have a list of "practices" that could lead to shunning, including those that heterosexuals engage in (e.g., pre-marital sex, adultery, etc). So, again, you'd be hard pressed to have a case heard in a court of law on the grounds that the way the JWs treat unrepentent JWs who practise' homosexuality is an act of discrimiation against homosexuals when it is the same way they treat unrepentent JWs who 'practice' premarital sex or adultery. Their lawyers would wipe the floor with your arguments - which is probably why there has been no successful lawsuit against the JWs for their practice of shunning. I hate shunning as much as the next person on this forum; I just don't think you've got a snowball's chance in hell of getting any lawsuit against it off the ground.

  • dgp
    dgp

    Bookmarked

  • thetrueone
    thetrueone

    Its all in the matter whether or not the courts see enforced shunning by virtue of religious indifference or sexual orientation a

    violation of human rights and freedoms.

    The mentioning of the Catholics is irrelevant to this case. They've got their own problems.

    The thing about the JWs that I dislike the most is how they can and do control people to break apart families instigated by their own devised

    rules or laws. So many times you hear even on this forum how daughters and sons do not have a relationship with their mother or father

    and haven't spoken to them for years, just because they were once brought up in this religion and made a choice to leave on their own direction.

    Or like I've mentioned before how many folks such as yourself Steve2 found that they were different than the norm regarding sexuality

    and these people lost the love and connection from their family, pushing some people to even commit suicide......is that right ?

    I personally do not have high optimistic hopes that the WTS will be forced to stop their shunning polices.

    Religion as its seen today is still a rich and powerful force to be reckoned with.

    The WTS. have a strong legal presence at the waiting to protect themselves and how they conduct and run their organization.

    Not to mention the finances they can pull out when they think its necessary.

    It will be interesting to see what happens in Brazil.

  • steve2
    steve2

    The WTS. have a strong legal presence at the waiting to protect themselves and how they conduct and run their organization.

    Not to mention the finances they can pull out when they think its necessary.

    It will be interesting to see what happens in Brazil.

    Absolutely agree with you on that, TTO!

  • AndersonsInfo
    AndersonsInfo

    Email just received from Sebastian Ramos sent to Joe Emerson of www.christianwitnesses.com website. Joe translated the email into English using Google translating and other sources.

    Dear friends, good afternoon!

    My name is Sebastian Ramos, I am the author of a rather unusual religious discrimination legal complaint in Brazil, which has an impact on the rest of the world.

    The Federal Public Ministry has denounced the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society and The Bible and Cultural Association of Fortaleza for religious discrimination against former members

    So, please look at these reports involving myself along with the prosecutor, Nilce Cunha Rodrigues about the Civil Public (Legal) Action; further, if you would, please feel free ... TO PASS ON THIS NEWS

    Sincerely,
    Sebastian Ramos – UFC – Federal University in Ceará http://youtu.be/sB-xvnyXYyA - Attorney General interviewed on Daily Public TV about the Civil Public (Legal) Action ...
    http://youtu.be/hF4KQ7dPpwU - Jehovah's Witness business condemned for refusing to hire disfellowshipped persons (ExJWs).
    http://youtu.be/bh_dCGfF2pA - Same topic for a TV affiliate the Global of Cuiabá - MT
    http://www.dhdiversidadereligiosa.com.br/noticias/not175.htm - CRDHDR shows itself in favor of discrimination
    http://oglobo.globo.com/cidades/mat/201 ... 004229.asp - Material of The Globe Newspaper
    http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/poder/9513 ... acao.shtml – The Folha de Sao Paulo addresses the issue
    http://i.imgur.com/kjzbQ.jpg - Diario do Nordeste (Daily Northeastern) - among others ...
    http://www.otempo.com.br/otempo/colunas ... ICAO = 16015 - An article published today in the major Jornal Mineiro O Tempo (Mining Journal Times)

    http://extestemunhasdejeova.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9414&sid =

    eddf7900d063638ce6d694774776cd17 - Impact in Europe

  • dgp
    dgp

    I wonder if anyone on this forum knows how to add subtitles to a You Tube video. I can obtain the audio from a You Tube video (easy-peasy) and can do the translation, which I could deliver as a transcript, but it would be nice if I someone more knowledgeable told me how to add subtitles.

  • dgp
    dgp

    Here is the transcript of this video:

    Jehovah's Witness business condemned for refusing to hire disfellowshipped persons (ExJWs).

    http://youtu.be/hF4KQ7dPpwU

    I will post the English original first, and then the Portuguese transcription, for anyone to check.

    English:

    Legal News

    Newscaster:

    In Cuiabá, in [the State of] Matto Grosso, a woman will be indemnified for discrimination by a female manager of a company who refused to work with her on religious grounds.

    Voice of
    Mara Martínez
    Journalist
    Jornal da Justiça (Legal News)


    Since she was invited to work at this new company, the woman quit her old job in Cuiabá, and in the process she gave up labor benefits, since she was told she had to start her work at her new position immediately.

    In the camera:
    Mara Martínez
    Jornalist for Jornal da Justiça (Legal News)
    Brasilia, Federal District


    On her first working day at her new job, the woman was informed that she would not be hired. The alleged reason is that she was expelled from the church of Jehovah's Witnesses because she had a child and is not married, and one of the company's managers, who attends that church, would not associate with someone who had been disfellowshipped from the congregation for bad behavior.

    The woman resorted to the authorities and she will be indemnified with five thousand reals for moral damages.

    In the camera
    Bernardo Pablo Sukiennik
    Constitutional Lawyer


    "The indemnification is justified because this person did take some actions. For example, she gave up some of her rights as an employee, she gave up that 40% of the tenth day, she gave up continuing her career in the first company in order to work at the second company. And all that is eligible for indemnification. Obviously, calculations would need to be made to determine the amount of the indemnification".

    Voice of
    Mara Martínez
    Jornalist for Jornal da Justiça (Legal News)
    Brasilia, Federal District


    In Brasilia, the church of Jehovah's Witnesses informed that no congregational regulations allow such discrimination.

    Voice of
    Heráclides Cambuy
    Elder of the Church of the Jehovah's Witnesses


    "People who become Jehovah's witnesses and leave, who become disfellowshipped, these people receive periodical visits inviting them to come back. The meetings of Jehovah's Witnesses are open to everyone, and people are welcome to attend these meetings. On the other hand, people are also free not to want to remain [in the church] anymore. And, we respect that as well".

    There is one part of Mr. Sukiennik's intervention when his speech is not very clear. He says that the woman in question gave up 40% of "the tenth date". I suppose this makes reference to some labor benefit as well. I will be happy if anyone removes the doubt.

    Five thousand reals (R$ 5.000, in Brazilian notation) is equivalent to three thousand US dollars. Or so it says here:

    http://www.exchange-rates.org/converter/BRL/USD/5000/Y

    The Portuguese original:

    Noticiário Jornal da Justiça

    Apresentadora:

    Em Cuiabá no Mato Grosso uma mulher vai ser indenizada por ter sido discriminada pela gerente de uma empresa que se recusou a trabalhar com ela por questões religiosas.

    Voz de
    Mara Martínez
    Jornalista
    Jornal da Justiça


    Convidada para um novo emprego, a mulher pediu a demissão do antigo serviço em Cuiabã, abrindo mão de benefícios pois teria que assumir a nova função imediatamente.

    Em câmera
    Mara Martínez
    Jornalista do Jornal da Justiça
    Brasília - DF


    No primeiro dia de trabalho a mulher foi informada de que não seria mais contratada. O motivo é que ela teria sido que ela tinha sido afastada da igreja Testemunhas de Jeová por ter tido um filho sem ser casada, e que uma diretora da empresa que freqüenta a igreja não poderia conviver com uma pessoa que tinha sido desassociada da congregação por mau comportamento.

    A mulher recorreu à Justiça e vai ser indenizada em cinco mil reais por dano moral.

    Em câmera
    Bernardo Pablo Sukiennik
    Advogado Constitucional


    "Cabe a indenização porque a pessoa tomou certas medidas. Por exemplo, desistiu de direitos trabalhistas, desistiu daquele quarenta por cento da fecha dez, desistiu de continuar fazendo a carreira em outra empresa para mudar para otra. E tudo isso é indenizável e aí obviamente seriam feitos cálculos para saber o valor da indenização".

    Voz de
    Mara Martínez
    Jornalista do Jornal da Justiça
    Brasília - DF


    A Igreja Testemunhas de Jeová em Brasilia informou que não há normas dentro da congregação que permitam esa discriminação.

    Voz de
    Heráclides Cambuy
    Ancião da Igreja Testemunhas de Jeová


    "As pessoas que se tornam testemunhas de Jeová e depois se afastam, que se tornam desassociadas elas recebem periodicamente visitas convidando a voltar. As reuniões dos testemunhas de Jeová são abertas e as pessoas são bem-vindas para assistir as reuniões. Mas, por outro lado, a pessoa também tem a liberdade de não querer mais. E então nós respeitamos isso também".

  • Gayle
    Gayle

    Thanks Sabastion Ramos, Joe Emerson, Barbara Anderson for all your work on this and thank you dgp for translation work!

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