first contradiction in the bible?

by cptkirk 82 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  SweetBabyCheezits

  Paul: Will that answer your question? maybe, it helped me to CONFRIM my Answer.

  Just based on the way you've worded this, might I suggest confirmation bias? Everyone is susceptible, including me and you.

  I found truth and love in the bible, something that reconciles the other ways God has revealed himself to Us (The universe, the words of inspired men, His living Word Christ, our innate understanding of right and wrong- what we ought to do).

  How much cultural mythology is needed within a book for it to be considered unreliable in matters of "truth"? How many acts of injustice, such as genocide, misogyny, and angry vengeance must be found in a book (and attributed to the writer's god) before it crosses the line from loving to atrocious? For either of these, would there be a scale-tipping percentage? Do we assign more weight to the good than the bad, the true than the false? Do we remember the hits and forget the misses?

  I did NOT find that in the Koran or Book of Mormons OR the WTBTS for that matter.

  I'd venture to say that's because you didn't start reading the Koran with the presupposition that it was a miracle of Allah? And it's highly likely you wouldn't find any value in the Bible if you were raised in Afghanistan.

  Here's one Muslim's view:

  Some critics say that the Koran mentions the concept of love only twice. In fact, the Book mentions the concept of love about a hundred times, if such statistics are really the essence of the message.

  After declaring God's universality, the Koran describes God as "most Merciful, most Compassionate" (1:3). In fact, every single Surah except one begins with this declaration about the divine nature.

  God is also known in the Scripture as "Full of Loving-Kindness" (11:90; 85:14). It is with the attribute of divine Love that the Koran most often seeks to directly create a relationship with humanity by encouraging those actions that bring God's love and discouraging those actions that extinguish God's love.

  Without doubt, the Koran also mentions God's wrath for those who reject faith after clear signs have come to them, and upon those who are bent on spreading evil and corruption on earth. But, as Prophet Muhammad said while quoting God himself, "My Mercy prevails over My wrath."
• 

  Ding

  Many Bible scholars consider Genesis 1 to be an overview and Genesis 2 to be a more detailed recap.

  You and I aren't likely to be the first to come up with some issue like this.

  There are a lot of books available discussing various Bible difficulties such as this one.

  You don't have to agree with any of them, of course, but they are available if you are interested.
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  PSacramento

  Hang on, Paul. Based on the order of your answer, this card is a clear "begging the question" kind of presupposition. It cannot logically be played until after a person has faith as a Christian. Until then, it's just a book that deserves equal scrutiny as any other book that makes claims to divine authorship. My question is WHY would we give credence to the Bible in the first place, before we develop that faith...

  A valid question and since my faith is NOT based one the bible ( the bible is merely a "finger" point the way to God) I can only refer you back to what I stated:

  I found truth and love in the bible, something that reconciles the other ways God has revealed himself to Us (The universe, the words of inspired men, His living Word Christ, our innate understanding of right and wrong- what we ought to do).

  I did NOT find that in the Koran or Book of Mormons OR the WTBTS for that matter.
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  cptkirk

  ding: you mean many bible apologists. i dont need some undercover bible apologist posing as a scholar to tell me what i can read with my own two eyes. the truth is bible scholar is an oxymoron, because any true scholar wouldn't be bothered wasting time disecting the bible. they are busy with quantum physics, atomic energy , and other real endeavors. we just had the faith flaw, which led us here. so dont tell me about people that came before us, as obama says 'we are the ones we've been waiting for". i dont do politics, but it seemed apt. WE ARE THE SCHOLARS, the ex-jw's who are otherwise smart people. you like that? "who are otherwise smart people" good eh? like i said, because any real scholar knows what a waste of time this subject is, their efforts lead them elsewhere.
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  PSacramento

  I'd venture to say that's because you didn't start reading the Koran with the presupposition that it was a miracle of Allah?

  Correct, but I didn't and don't read the bible with that presupposition either ( since I don't view the bible as a miracle or inerrant).
• 

  Anony Mous

  It is ultimately a contradiction in text if you want to interpret the bible and it's creation account literally. Bible scholars will differ on their interpretation of text (ranging from evolution to apologistic) but it's an after-the-fact interpretation of an orally conveyed message over thousands of years that was ultimately written down. Genesis etc. wasn't just written by Moses. It was also written partly by Joshua and then the kings were instructed to rewrite the text every time they went into office. Thus you can see where biases would be appearing (if Solomon wrote his 'bible' after he was converted by his women) and eventually false stories (such as the expats of a non-existent king David) in order to preserve lineage and promote specific people into religious and political places (such as Jesus).

  It's like trying to interpret the stories the Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm wrote down, they're mythical in origin, they have no real scientific or historical value but it's interesting to dissect where they ultimately came from.

  Christianity (any) is a religion based in the mythological texts of the Bible. When you realize Tolkien based parts of his stories from the Biblical symbolism and mythical stories you might want to reevaluate your view on what most learned people see in the Bible.
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  PSacramento

  Augustine on Genesis:

  Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of the world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion [quoting 1 Tim 1:7].

  (emphasis added; quoted from Noll, pp. 202-203, from the John Hammond Taylor translation of 1982)
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  SweetBabyCheezits

  SBC: I'd venture to say that's because you didn't start reading the Koran with the presupposition that it was a miracle of Allah?

  Paul: Correct, but I didn't and don't read the bible with that presupposition either ( since I don't view the bible as a miracle or inerrant).

  Okay, but one doesn't need to start with that exact presupposition to be misguided. He merely needs to start with the presupposition that the Bible has some kind of legit insight into the almighty's dealings with mankind. Once that presupposition is in place, faith can take root.

  So again, why trust the Bible over the Koran at the beginning of one's journey if both works attribute acts of kindness/love and acts of wrath/injustice to their respective deities?
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  cptkirk

  there is a big difference between digging up bones and using proven scientific methods on these bones, and or plant fossils. compared to digging up some ancient tablet that talks about zeus and hermes and lukeskywalker and megatron for that matter. year 4000 ad, oh you mean lord of the rings was entertainment? we thought that was real. meanwhile you got people knocking on doors talking about the 12th apostle named frodo baggins.
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  cantleave

  Unshackled - you have revived my interest in Lego!