Another question, if I may...

by AGuest 97 Replies latest jw friends

AGuest

The other business`s don`t Threaten My Life,if I don`t use their Products or Services.. I`m not a Big Fan of Extortion..
But not all religions so threaten, do they, dear Artie Rex (the greatest of love and peace to you, my dear friend!)? However, some of the other industries all but do so, in a different kind of way, don't they (i.e., "If you don't use our product you won't be... whatever... and so might as well be dead, 'cause ain't nobody gonna like/want you...")? I mean, isn't all pretty much "mind games"?
I think the issue is NOT religion but ORGANIZED relgion.
Now, see, my "definition" is that which is organized/institutionalized in some manner, dear P (the greatest of love and peace to you, as well!), even if on a kind of tribal level (i.e., with a "medicine man" who pretty much tells everyone else what they can/cannot should/should not, etc., and so is looked to as the head/leader, of sorts). Otherwise, I just consider them... ummmmm... "beliefs", and not necessarily of a religious nature (although to some that is the connotation).

Shouldn't religion come with some kind of WARNING! label similar to what is on a pack of cigs or bottle of alcohol? Or, perhaps a Disclaimer
Perhaps, dear JO (the greatest of love and peace to you, too, dear one!). But these didn't always have warnings, did they? And how CAN you warn? Perhaps a religion's "creed" could be a kind of disclaimer? I mean, "We believe... such and so." Which should give people a sense of what they're getting into. But that kind of is the case already and why governments often don't interfere: people can choose what they want to believe. The government can't... and shouldn't... try to control that.
I don't know about other parts of the country, but the churches around here are heavily involved in charitable endeavors. Even if someone does not believe in God, association with a church that focuses on community and altruistic acts rather than burdensome doctrine is rewarding.
Yes, but what if a religion doesn't "believe" in charitable works? What if their particular belief system is that each one must provide for himself/herself? Or that "God helps those who help themselves"? Or "Good, let 'em all die off; more for us"? I can see where to qualify as a particular TYPE of religion... that claims to adhere to a certain set of beliefs (i.e., following Christ), might be monitored as to whether their activities actually replicate his teachings. But I am sure that someone will find a way around that. Heck, that's what corporate legal departments are for: to find ways for their employers to circumvent laws, codes, regulations, ordinances, statutes, etc.
One in particular has a huge sign out front that reads, Free Produce for the Needy. They distribute fresh veggies and fruit and if you have a surplus from your garden, you can drop it off there and they will make sure someone in need will get it.
What a wonderful thing! But that's what they believe is "right." Another religion (and I know of at least one - LOL!)... maybe not so much.
Even so, though, my question is, if there is NO God/god... what's the problem? How are they different from other industries that scam people out of their money, homes, lives... minds?
Again, peace to you all... and thank you for responding!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
PSacramento

Whether organized relgion is a problem or not has nothing to do with the existence of God.
If God exists then, one way or another, religious people will answer to Him eventually.
The harm of ANY ideology is when it devalues human life and worth, when love and compassion ofr each other is devalued, when it is used to divid rather than unite.
shechaiyah

What PSacramento said makes sense to me.
Religion has nothing to do with the Physics of Creation nor the Personalities that inhabit the Universe.
Religion simply creates DOGMA and places all reality in convenient and comfortable categories and then forces its members to assent to its constructs.
I have refused to limit my thinking to their categories; so I don't fit in anywhere.
If I were to hAve a reason to come to a place like this, here is what it would be.
There's a site called "MeetUp," and it's simple and cheap to set up any sort of group for any purpose, any goal. $30 a month, and you have everything you need.
There is NO church where I live that meets my needs for conversation, mutual support and mutual interests, period. In six years, I can't find one.
So, if I were to set up such a Group, what would I call it? How would I configure it? Who would be a target audience for a small local Sabbath meeting place?
What would necessarily be its defining Reality?
That's what I'm working on.
She--
sabastious

shechaiyah
Religion has had the copyright for community for a long time and now with technology we can move away from it. Meetup.com is a perfect example of this.
-Sab
AGuest

"Murder is bad, but so is Kentucky Fried Chicken. You tolerate KFC, so why not tolerate murder?"
See, Jer, once again evidence that you and I don't think alike... or that you ever fully read what I post (yet, deign to comment). You obviously missed my comments that:
"I would ask, what about the tobacco and alcohol industries? Those absolutely kill... and not just the user. They are responsible for the death of millions... including those who NEVER drank (via auto and other accidents) or smoked (via second-hand smoke). And what of war-mongering... regardless of whether we "approve" of the particular government or not? That kills people, too... "
I would add, that war often includes murder, as well. So junk/fast food was just the surface example; I did go beyond "KFC". Note, though, that there are some people in the world who would see KFC et al. go... before they would see an end to taking out those not like them - including women and children - en masse.
Religion is a narcotic and drugs are supposed to be "illegal."
Illegal drugs are illegal, dear Sab (peace to you, dear one!). My understanding... and a point I think is part of this issue is... religion is legal. It may be a drug, true, but currently in most of the world it's a legal drug...
Only when religion infringes upon our freedom of speech, or any other recognized human right, does it become a "crime" in my book.
I understand what you mean, dear one, but let's consider this: I currently shop at Wal-mart and Costco. Both have door checkers to check your receipt upon leaving. Wal-Mart can't really enforce its practice, though... because there is no ordinance requiring/allowing it. Costco, however, can enforce it. It is a membership retailer... which people choose to join... and so reserves the right to revoke one's membership if one doesn't cooperate with its policies. In that light, if the "policy" of a religion includes certain kinds of suppression... including of speech... and one disregards that policy, one's "membership" can be revoked.
Now, in this country (U.S.) and my state (Cali)... the religion cannot stop such one from attending their public meetings (although they may try). That is against the law. Nor can they stop one from speaking up/out... so long as doing so isn't "disruptive." Freedom of speech, however, is not absolute. It does NOT apply to all speech, at any time, in any place. It does have limitations.
I have a special vehemance against any organization which would extort a person using fear and guilt.
I understand and I do, too, dear Mr. F (peace to you, dear one!). But I am not sure that religion is the only "organization" that does that... and folks don't seem to have the same problem with the others. So, I have to conclude that it is the fact that it's RELIGION doing so that gets to them. But, again, if there's no God/god... what's the big deal? Why does something that "sells" God cause so much consternation... if there IS no God/god?
When you look at how industries and corporations rape and decimate 3rd World cultures, it's easy to see that A LOT of what man has set up, God or no God, is pretty nasty.
Indeed.
But so as not to sound like a pessimist (of which I am) I also think that if you look at things realistically, man has accomplished much good.
But wouldn't you, given the hospitals, orphanages, soup kitchens, hostels, etc., that religion has, too? Again, I am NOT condoning religion. For me, it's their crimes against God that I have a problem with, including "speaking" in His name and/or for Him... or doing things in His name... when they don't even know Him. I am not trying to debate the truth of that - I'm just stating what MY problem with it is. However, I find it... interesting... that those who DON'T believe in God would have a problem... given what other industries do and how. So, I'm just trying to understand that - given what others do... including harm lives... what really IS the difference? Larger scale? Perhaps. For one or two religions... but not all.
So... what's up with that?
Again, peace to you all!
A slave of Christ,
SA
OUTLAW

Hey Shelby!..
But not all religions so threaten, do they, dear Artie Rex (the greatest of love and peace to you, my dear friend!)? However, some of the other industries all but do so, in a different kind of way, don't they (i.e., "If you don't use our product you won't be... whatever... and so might as well be dead, 'cause ain't nobody gonna like/want you...")? I mean, isn't all pretty much "mind games"?But not all religions so threaten, do they, dear Artie Rex (the greatest of love and peace to you, my dear friend!)? However, some of the other industries all but do so, in a different kind of way, don't they (i.e., "If you don't use our product you won't be... whatever... and so might as well be dead, 'cause ain't nobody gonna like/want you...")? I mean, isn't all pretty much "mind games"?
Not all Religions want to Kill You..
Some just want to send you to Hell to be Tortured Indefinitly..LOL!!.
Thats much different than..
"If you don`t use Our Product..You Gonna be Ugly!"
........................ ...OUTLAW
AGuest

Whether organized relgion is a problem or not has nothing to do with the existence of God.
Yes, of course, dear P (again, peace to you!). But my question is, if there is NO God... what really is the big deal? Why not allow them to "sell" what those who are in the market WANT to "buy"? I mean, sans God, it's really nothing more than a business, isn't it? True, it may not sell products, but it certainly sells a kind of service...
Religion has nothing to do with the Physics of Creation nor the Personalities that inhabit the Universe.
Agreed, dear Shec (peace to you!).
Religion simply creates DOGMA and places all reality in convenient and comfortable categories and then forces its members to assent to its constructs.
Yes, and my question is, if one is of the belief that there is no God/god... what's WRONG with that? If there are those who want to BUY that melarkey... why shouldn't it be SOLD to them?
I have refused to limit my thinking to their categories; so I don't fit in anywhere.
Well, I certainly understand that. But you don't really WANT to fit in... do you?? I mean, given their respective "molds"...
Not all Religions want to Kill You.. Some just want to send you to Hell to be Tortured Indefinitly..LOL!!.
You're thinking of "Abrahamic" religions, right, dear KArt (LOL! OUTLAW... and again, peace to you!)... and particularly the "christian" and Islamic ones? But what of those that don't teach such destinies?
Ennywho... just something that crosses my mind every now and again. Given that we live in a time where pretty anything can be sold... so long as there are buyers and it's legal... what's the big deal with religion (other than its perpetrating "God", for those that do so)? Aren't they nothing more than a kind of service industry?
Again, thanks for the comments and peace to you all!
A slave of Christ,
SA
PSacramento

I repeat:
The harm of ANY ideology is when it devalues human life and worth, when love and compassion ofr each other is devalued, when it is used to divid rather than unite.
Paralipomenon

If there is NO God/god, then... I would like to know what some of you think it any different from all of the other commerical enterprises out there. If some of the leaders are just taking advantage of people who perhaps have a spiritual need... how is that different from those who take other kinds of advantages of people? If there is no God/god... shouldn't they be allowed to exist, too, simply because of "law" of supply and demand? People WANT religion - why shouldn't they HAVE it?
If religions just focused on spiritual needs of their groups, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Take a look at two hot issues, gay marriage and abortion. Why are religions not content to focus on the spiritual needs of their groups and lobby to have their spiritual needs forced on non members?
In an example of smoking, I personally feel it is a vice and I don't approve. But I would have the same reaction I do to religion if they lobbied governments to force me to smoke by law.
It's the step beyond personal belief to that of enforcing one's personal beliefs on others that I have an issue with.
journey-on

For me, it's their crimes against God that I have a problem with, including "speaking" in His name and/or for Him... or doing things in His name... when they don't even know Him.
I see what you are suggesting, Shelby. But, my friend, we may be tempted to judge them as criminals for speaking on behalf of God when he hasn't (in our opinion) given them this authority, but we are not their judges. It is my understanding the Christ judges some "churches" harshly, and some commendably (Rev.)
As far as why unbelievers cut corporate rhetoric slack, but can't do the same for religions, don't you think it stems from a kind of deep-seated prejudice and hatred.....no different from racism or sexism? Some of them are foaming-at-the-mouth angry at anything and anybody that smacks of "God", much less religions that claim to speak for Him, that they can't see the similarity. One sells a product and one sells God (or their particular brand of God). It's the "product" that bothers them so much because of an inner hatred for it.

Another question, if I may...

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