Another question, if I may...

by AGuest 97 Replies latest jw friends

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  journey-on

  shech:

  Religion simply creates DOGMA and places all reality in convenient and comfortable categories and then forces its members to assent to its constructs.

  I have refused to limit my thinking to their categories; so I don't fit in anywhere.

  Maybe that is the true meaning of the scripture: "Each one will sit under his own vine and fig tree". We are each and every one our own so-called temple. If we find like-mined individuals to associate with, then, great! "Where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I AM."

  Maybe that's why some of us enjoy this board. We are all different, but alike, too, in that we are mostly open-minded free-thinkers who have broken free from repressive religious dogma. The connection is there, but it doesn't strangle and hinder our individual search.
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  OUTLAW

  You're thinking of "Abrahamic" religions, right, dear KArt (LOL! OUTLAW... and again, peace to you!)...

  and particularly the "christian" and Islamic ones? But what of those that don't teach such destinies?.....Shelby

  LOL!!..You are such a Tease..

  You make a good point..

  I don`t have a problem with non abusive religions..

  The ones that actually do something for the community..Soup kitchens/Shelters ect..ect..

  But..Those are as rare as a Real Christian..

  Most of them WANT something..

  Usually your life..Your family..Money is good too..

  ........................ ...OUTLAW
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  AGuest

  I hear you, dear PSacto (again, peace to you!).

  If religions just focused on spiritual needs of their groups, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

  But some only focus in that manner, right, dear Para (peace to you!)? Please keep in mind: I am not asking as to Abrahamic religions... but religion in general. OR... is it only the Abrahamic religions that folks have a problem with? Perhaps that's the issue. But how do you get rid of those... without getting rid of them ALL?

  Take a look at two hot issues, gay marriage and abortion. Why are religions not content to focus on the spiritual needs of their groups and lobby to have their spiritual needs forced on non members?

  Are all religions not content to so focus?

  In an example of smoking, I personally feel it is a vice and I don't approve. But I would have the same reaction I do to religion if they lobbied governments to force me to smoke by law.

  What if they lobbied governments to outlaw it... based on the statistics of disease/death caused by smoking to both firsthand AND secondhand users? Particularly children who have no choice but to reside in homes where smoking is done? Some might contend that that is a GOOD thing... while others would cry out that it was a violation of privacy and personal rights...

  It's the step beyond personal belief to that of enforcing one's personal beliefs on others that I have an issue with.

  I agree... except do religions really do that... except with regard to their own members? I mean, you don't HAVE to open the door or take that magazine. Right?

  You see, dear ones, a LOT of what I see on this site is chagrin and dissention by people who were RAISED in a certain religion. And so it seems to me that their current view is based on their experience as children... and being raised in a particular religion (one we're all pretty familiar with, with a few exceptions). Because of this, many of these no longer believe in God. I get that, too. But not all religions do the things they do... nor some of the things the rest of us abhor.

  Even so, again, if there is no God... what is the big deal with religion IN GENERAL? I mean, I personally don't LIKE the fact that people are being lied to and misled... but religion isn't the only industry that does that... or uses certain tactics. Brainwashing is not unique to religion. But it seems to ME that, due to personal experience with ONE religion... and/or perceptions about those who worship the God of Abraham because of what some who purport to do so do... and sell... is behind the "hatred" of religion.

  If, though, one's experience with religion has been GOOD... and because of religion one has, for the most part done GOOD... then, if there is NO God/god... why take away what that one... ummmmm... "wants"? If you like Nike's... but I don't... and there truly is no God to say whether I should or shouldn't... or you shouldn't or should... what is the deciding factor that says Nike's are "bad"?

  Again, for me... who believes God DOES exist... it's saying that GOD says Nike's are good/bad... when He didn't. Or using Nike's to kick others... while saying God said it was okay. When He didn't and you're only using something written in a book... that may actually be totally altered... to support that kick.

  Just sayin... and just wonderin'...

  Again, peace to you all!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
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  AGuest

  I don`t have a problem with non abusive religions..

  That's kind of what I mean, dear one (again, peace to you!): if there is no God/god... what is the big deal about religion, en totale? Better yet, what's the problem with non-religious faith/belief... which absolutely does NOT harm or even involve others? If there is no God/god... why deny people the "service"? I get the "usual" reasons: they lie, cheat, mislead, and even kill people. But... they're not alone in this. Other commercial industries do the exact same thing. And they don't ALL do it. Why, then, shouldn't these be allowed to "sell"... if people are WANTING to "buy"? And for those that do not sell... why shouldn't they be allowed to just give it away... if there are those who WANT it?

  I think, excluding perhaps one, those of you who've responded understand what I'm asking. I brought it up to begin with to show I think and what goes through MY mind on matters like this... which sometimes differs greatly from how some others think. So, I'm trying to understand why they think as they do on this matter.

  Again, thank you all for commenting... and peace to you!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
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  wobble

  Dear Shelby,

  The problem with Big Pharma, the Tobacco Industry, the Fast Food people, and religions is that they ALL harm in some way.

  It is a false premise to say "We tolerate the drugs/fast food/ciggie industries therefore we should tolerate religions, if not the suicide bomber type, we should tolerate the soup-kitchen do-gooders".

  Any religion is pushing falsehoods, purveying a false view of life now, and to come, (who can say, with proof to support, that there will be one ?)

  Show me a truly harmless religion, one that does not give a warped world-view, I do not include in this personal faith and how that makes a person live their life, this may indeed be not just harmless, but a positive force for good, as I believe your faith is Shelby, but religions are all harmful in some way.
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  AGuest

  The problem with Big Pharma, the Tobacco Industry, the Fast Food people, and religions is that they ALL harm in some way.

  Yes, dear Wobble (peace to you, dear one!)!

  It is a false premise to say "We tolerate the drugs/fast food/ciggie industries therefore we should tolerate religions, if not the suicide bomber type, we should tolerate the soup-kitchen do-gooders"

  That's not exactly my question, though, dear one, but the opposite: why SHOULDN'T we... if there is NO God/god? Why are they WORSE, if you're looking at ALL of them, including the non-violent ones?

  Any religion is pushing falsehoods,

  As do those others...

  purveying a false view of life now

  As do those those others...

  and to come, (who can say, with proof to support, that there will be one ?)

  AH!! So it's the hope for the FUTURE that they push that is the "crime"? But do all of them teach beyond life now??

  Show me a truly harmless religion, one that does not give a warped world-view,

  But couldn't I ask the same of you regarding the others? Show me one that is truly harmless... and does not give a warped world view (surely you are aware of the "image" the western world pushes... and the resultant world view?).

  I do not include in this personal faith and how that makes a person live their life, this may indeed be not just harmless, but a positive force for good, as I believe your faith is Shelby,

  Thank you, dear Wobs... truly. Unfortunately, there are those here who DO include personal faith in "religion"... and I guess I don't understand why, for them, if there is no God/god... it's an issue at all. Religiously speaking or not. But it appears to be... and this has been a conundrum on my mind lately, that I would like to try and understand.

  but religions are all harmful in some way.

  Really? ALL of them? (Not that I disagree, though... but I am not sure I can say that as truth)...

  Thank YOU, dear Wob... for your comments. I think some who are religious don't care to know what others think, or how they think, or why. I am not that way. I realize that I am confusing to some... and so always TRY to explain myself. Not always successful, no - LOLOLOLOL! But I want to understand others, so... I ask questions.

  Again, thank you and peace to you!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
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  shechaiyah

  All talk of "speaking in the Name of God" is absurd if God is perceived as a Ninny or a Tyrant.

  The belief in God, I think, has more to do with accountability for effects (of cause-and-effect relations) in time than it does with any particular form of organization.

  Hierarchy is typically a very bad and very destructive form of non-consensual governance in which a few Elites cop off with everything; and most are slaves.

  WTBTS is a perfect example of Elites copping off with everything, leaving the members to founder.

  YET--Humans who prey on others, or who parasite off society must be corrected, somehow, some way or other. Or society goes nuts.

  Organized Religion attempt to do this by connecting mankind's "freewill" into a God-paradigm in which judgments about effects REGULARLY OCCUR.

  Atheists and agnostics seem particularly resistent to being held accountable for HARM they CAUSE and undue costs they produce upon the innocent and naive.

  The epistles of Paul EXCUSE ALL CHRISTIANS from all necessity to pursue Law-ful behavior; so in effect, Paul let the wolves loose again.

  In the Urantia Book model, God remains silently in the background because mankind is learning how to treat each other and treat the planet with care.

  In reality, neither of these objectives has been met by civil society in this era and time. In fact, Mankind is a bunch of war-profiting polluters and not-see hangers-on.

  So, what now?
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  J. Hofer

  hi slave of christ (peace to you and all that).

  i take your point. there really isn't much difference in organized religion, parts of the pharmaceutical industry and schemes like amway, herbalife, monavie etc.

  i was involved in religion, so that's what i know most about. i wasn't involved in amway. i know a little about those schemes, as i know people who are/were involved. i never had a problem with pharmaceutics. i did smoke some weed, just to try it, but i don't have any bad experiences with it. other people do, so they might focus more on that problem than on religion. some don't have any problem with religion at all. that's alright. as long as noone gets hurt...

  what we do know though is, that some religions, drugs, schemes are more dangerous than others. i think it could be empirically proven that a zen buddhist is less likely to blow people up than a radical mudjaheddin. someone smoking weed now and then is less likely to get into serious health problems than someone shooting heroine. someone hosting tupperware parties will not be as dependent on that company as someone who lives on amway products.
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  wobble

  "Atheists and agnostics seem particularly resistant to being held accountable for HARM they CAUSE and undue costs they produce upon the innocent and naive"

  Dear Shec,

  The above words make no sense to me ,would you please , not only explain, but support with proof what you say ?

  I cannot conceive of any harm that we Atheist/Agnostics can do, let alone costs, to anyone, innocent and naive or not.

  We simply do not believe in fairys, hob-goblins, Jinns, Daemons or demons or spirits or gods and godesses without proof for them, how can our not believing impact on anyone else ?

  I am a non-Golfer, I do not play golf, is this in some way unfair to innocent and naive Golfers ?

  What on earth are you saying ?
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  shechaiyah

  Wobble, excuse me?

  Are you UNAWARE of the use of fluoride in water to destroy human brains; depleted uranium in armaments, faulty vaccines, nuclear-warmed power stations on top of quake fault lines;

  pharmaceuticals and genetically altered grains ARE DESTROYING human and biological life?

  Do you think these are ACCIDENTS OF NATURE?

  Shouldn't somebody or ANYBODY BE ACCOUNTABLE for these assaults upon Life itself?

  Accountability. Is this a concept that makes sense or no sense to you?