Actually, the reason I believe in the flood account, is because Jesus mentioned it in his teachings
QB: A Free man because of Christ
Wouldn't the predators on the ark have eaten everything by the time the 40 days was over?
by highdose 97 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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TD
Hey Shelby!
First, the verse doesn't indicate that straw is ALL they will eat, but that lions will eat it... just as bulls will. I think the real translation is "fodder"...which IS chopped straw, in many cases.
Do you think veiwing "straw" in apposition to "dust," which is the food given the serpent in Isaiah 65:12 would amount to a metaphor? Dust really isn't a viable food and eating it is not really a form of vegetarianism. (IMHO anyhow )
In other words, the specific promise is that predators would no longer harm humans or their domestic animals (i.e. The lamb, calf and kid) but doesn't really speak to the subject of wild forms of prey?
In Job, God seems to be proud of the animal kingdom and I have a hard time picturing Him taking credit before Job for something He didn't do. Job 38:39; 39:29,30, etc.
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Twitch
I like Terry's take on the whole affair. The idea has correlations in other thinking and reasoning from the time. Given the nature of human knowledge and communication and the evolution of same, one could say such stories are inevitable and to be expected, at least from antiquity.
I believe such stories in the bible (and elsewhere) have common themes and morals to the story, which to me is their real value. It sometimes blows my mind the mental gymnastics required to believe these things as literally true. I have always thought that such stories in the bible (and elsewhere) likely have some vague basis in reality, albeit with a large amount of embellishment and even fabrication, considering the realistic impossibility of the specifics. I believe this to be true of much of the "miracles" in the bible (and elsewhere)
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sir82
because Jesus mentioned it in his teachings
Jesus also mentioned camels passing thru the eyes of needles.
Is everything Jesus said to be taken literally?
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AGuest
Hey Shelby!
Greetings, dear TD... and peace to you!
First, the verse doesn't indicate that straw is ALL they will eat, but that lions will eat it... just as bulls will. I think the real translation is "fodder"...which IS chopped straw, in many cases.
Do you think veiwing "straw" in apposition to "dust," which is the food given the serpent in Isaiah 65:12 would amount to a metaphor? Dust really isn't a viable food and eating it is not really a form of vegetarianism. (IMHO anyhow )
The word of my Lord is that they are both literal, dear one. As for "dust", I had to ask for more clarification (as I did regarding whether plants would die, since there would be no more death - the answer was no... the condition of the earth and soil will sustain all plant life that survives to that time year round - apparently, though... like some flesh, some plant life that exists now will not then). "Dust" does not mean literal dirt (earth) alone, but includes dust created by other means (fine plant particles, shed skin, hair, etc.), as well as nutrients contained in soil (dung, etc.).
In other words, the specific promise is that predators would no longer harm humans or their domestic animals (i.e. The lamb, calf and kid) but doesn't really speak to the subject of wild forms of prey?
But it isn't limited to domestic animals. If wolves, lions and serpents (snakes, actually, which truthfully are not serpents), etc. will cause no more harm... then it would be as to wild prey as well as domestic. Again, NO death - rather, LIFE will prevail for once.
In Job, God seems to be proud of the animal kingdom
Perhaps. Depends on what the writer was trying to relate: the power... or the prowess.
and I have a hard time picturing Him taking credit before Job for something He didn't do. Job 38:39; 39:29,30, etc.
But He DID make such provisions in His creation, although not from the beginning. Just as He did with man. For example, David was a mighty warrior and such by the grace of God. But war-mongering was not something intended from the beginning. From the beginning, there was no need for war... or the eating of meat. There STILL isn't, as to either. Yes, meat is perhaps best for certain animals now... but that is because it is the food they've adapted to. Like we have. We, however, have learned/are learning to adapt BACK (well, some of us; in some cases, entire cultures, yes?). And we can well survive by doing so. As for carnivores, very few vegans feed their pets meat... and those pets adapt.
Really? It's not in the food you eat either?
Nope.
You can go 3 days eating beef jerky & dried fruit, drinking nothing at all, without any problem whatsoever?
WithOUT jerky or dried fruit, dear sir (again, peace to you!)... and drinking nothing at all. Anyone can. It's called "fasting"... and some people do it for even longer than 3 days
Jesus also mentioned camels passing thru the eyes of needles. Is everything Jesus said to be taken literally?
Well, if you look at the context in this case, yes... literally. Because he is recorded to have said that it is easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle THAN for a rich man to get into the kingdom. Easier, yes... but not IMPOSSIBLE. Because ALL things are possible with God. Even the "impossible" (from our perspective). It was rhetoric, yes, but meant to be taken literally: it isn't easy for such one... because of what often TRULY holds such one's heart. But it's not impossible.
I hope this helps and, again, peace to you both!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
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jam
Possum set 367 days hibernation record.
Australian eastern pygmy possum in Fritz Geiser,s
lab at the university of New England in Armidale,
New south Wales stuffed itself full and hibernated
for A record 367 days.
The study appears in the journal Naturwissenschaften
reports New scientist magazine.
Well that answer my question, how long can A animal
go with out eating.
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highdose
ok but hibernantion while on board the ark still does not solve the problem that when the animals got out they would have had no vegetation to eat and the carnivores would have eaten the remaining animals.
And what about the humans in all this?? What did they eat? The animals they were supposed to be preserving? If you take the view that they took aboard grains then you have another problem in that grain rots. By the end of it all the would have run out of food long before the flood waters went.
Do i recall right that when noah got out of the ark he sacrificed somthing as thanks to god? Now where did that animal sacrifice come from? Surely not one of the animals he was supposed to be preserving??
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J. Hofer
funny. that's one of the reasons i stopped believing in jesus.> Actually, the reason I believe in the flood account, is because Jesus mentioned it in his teachings
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Quarterback
J: So you don't beleive in Jesus?
What is it you don't beleive in? His existence? His teachings? His place in history?
I believe that Jesus existed because Flavius Josephus the Historian mentioned his existence.
Still a free man because of Christ, but I do have a mortgage
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J. Hofer
quarterback, that's off topic, but you'd better get your info straight on flavius josephus and his supposed mentioning of jesus (hint: it's fake).
if i believe in his existence? no. at least not the way the christians put it. maybe there was some vagabond teacher with a few disciples called yahoshuah, that wasn't uncommon. but maybe there wasn't. i don't really care.
about his teachings: we don't know what he taught. he didn't leave any writings. and the gospels contradict each other. and he supposedly believed in a global flood with thousands of animals on a little wooden box. so if he indeed existed, he might have had a few nice teachings for the people of his time, but not for educated people of our day.
his place in history? well, i can't deny that this jesus character shaped much of our history. mostly to the bad.
you are a free man because we live in a free society, not because of christ.