Testing, testing, testing.....Jehovah TESTS?

by Terry 54 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  N.drew

  Here is an example for a Greek scholar with no agenda;

  Ephesians 2:12

  How I learned it: you were at the particular time without Christ alienated from the state of Israel and strangers to the covenants of the promise and you had no hope and were without God in the world.

  Another one: that at that time you were without Christ being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise haveing no hope and without God in the world.

  NIV: remember at that time you were separate from Christ excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the peomise without hope and without God in the world.

  New Living traslation (2007): In those days you were living apart from Christ. You were excluded from among the people of Israel, and you did not know the covenant promises God had made to them. You lived in this world without God and without hope.

  That is a new translation, so I will stop there.

  How about? This is it transliterated: That agree (hold) the fitting season (opportunity) that one apart from (sepparate, without) annointed Messiah (christos) to alienate (estrange) the citizen body the Israel even foreign the covenant between two parties (will testament) DIATHEKE the promise (summons) expectation hope (confidence) not having even godless (atheos) at the world.

  The mistake they made in translation is hope is twin with the expectation NOT with the world. They say it means "they were without hope in the world" I say it means that they were without THE EXPECTATION OF HOPE. The expectation of a promise and the expectation of the hope for the promise mean a world of difference to me. That is who I meant, I am looking for. other people who want to know what The Word SAYS, where are they?

  I believe the reason that we can know the real meaning NOW is because it is being revealed in the World. Matthew 24:34 "things fulfilled". I am saying I see the things fulfilled, does anyone else? The answer so far it No, there is no one else. I know it means "expectation of hope" because I can see it. I'm desperate to know if there is anyone else who can see?
• 

  LV101

  Tammy --- thanks.
• 

  Ding

  The notion that this life is a huge series of loyalty tests is a creation of the WTS.

  No wonder JWs feel so uncertain and exhausted.
• 

  N.drew

  Jesus answered and said unto him If a man love me he will keep my words and my Father will love him and we will come unto him and make our abode with him Biblos http://biblos.com/john/14-23.htm

  Hi Tammy, you wrote John 14:23 for your hope in Jesus.

  Some one might interpret that scripture God and Christ will

  abode with the one who is loving Jesus and listening to his words

  on Earth. *** The other one might interpret it as "we" who love Jesus

  will be brought to the abode with them.

  I believe the first one. Why would they abode with human?

  And how? Tammy, how do you understand that scripture?

  And how does it cause confidence in the wisdom of man?

  In other words, how does loving Jesus save the Earth?

  Please know that when I say "Save the Earth" I mean for happy

  habitation, I don't mean it might crack in two, for goodness sake.
• 

  tec

  Tammy --- question: how do you determine which parts of the bible to accept. assume you accept Christ's words but do you laboriously do research or go by what you know from other passages/scripture or what your heart tells you. i think it's so difficult to accept this/reject that.

  I did not do any labourous research of the OT/NT to decide which might be true or not, or which to reject or not. I wasn't and am not really interested in that. I just wanted to know Christ - and through Him, know God. (Actually, I wanted to know God, and I learned that to know God, one must know Christ first) But once you know someone, you don't have to go back and find every falsehood written/said about them. You just go with what you know is true. Or believe is true, since no one is perfect, and we all make mistakes.

  But... I also go with my heart, in the sense of knowing that God is love. So if something is borne out of love, then even if it is wrong - love covers a multitude of sins. If something I read shows no love from God or Christ, then I have to doubt that the account is true, or translated properly, or even just understood properly.

  When I find something like that, I think about Christ, and what He did and taught. If it contradicts Him, then again, I dismiss it... not necessarily because it is a lie, but because it might be mistranslated, allegorical, misunderstood.

  But the bottom line for me is trying to live by what Christ taught/teaches: following Him in showing faith, love, mercy and forgiveness.

  i find it so interesting you and Stephen --- both spiritual and followers of Christ but knew the J.W.s weren't truth.

  I can't speak for Stephen, but I didn't know that the JW's weren't the truth right off. I thought they were the truth, and that is why I continued studying for two years. Even after I stopped studying with them, I thought there was something wrong with me, but that they were still the truth. I left because of what the religion was doing to ME... making me judgmental of others... and I knew it was bad for me to be part of it. I also didn't realize that they taught that anyone who died at Armageddon would not be resurrected. How can you hope for something that probably means the eternal destruction for so many people?

  I couldn't do it. And I should have known that God does not work that way; because I am not better or more loving or more merciful than God. Not by a long shot (especially if we are looking at God through His Son). But I didn't know Christ then. I think I only knew what I was being taught about Him.

  So it took quite some time of private personal study to realize that they were not the truth. And prayer. And a moment where I just let all my frustrations and worries go, and placed myself in God's hands. I asked Him to guide me to where He wanted me to be. And now I know that it is to Christ to whom we go. I tell you, that moment where I handed myself over was such a huge weight off my shoulders.

  This didn't all happen at once, of course. It took time, and patience, and prayer and... well, trust and faith I think. And still, all I really know is that Christ is the truth, and that I am to follow Him.

  Hope that helps,

  Peace

  Tammy
• 

  tec

  Hi Tammy, you wrote John 14:23 for your hope in Jesus.

  Not my hope in Christ... but I do find comfort in those words, yes.

  Some one might interpret that scripture God and Christ will

  abode with the one who is loving Jesus and listening to his words

  on Earth. *** The other one might interpret it as "we" who love Jesus

  will be brought to the abode with them.

  I believe the first. We (God and Christ) will come and make our home with them (those who love and follow Christ) = we will come to them.

  I believe this is meant in spirit. As in, indwelling. The spirit of Christ, and of God, living within us.

  I believe the first one. Why would they abode with human?

  And how? Tammy, how do you understand that scripture?

  Oops. I think I answered that above.

  And how does it cause confidence in the wisdom of man?

  I don't think it does. I wouldn't put much stock in the wisdom of man ;)

  In other words, how does loving Jesus save the Earth?

  Because if you love someone, then you love the people that THEY love. If they ask you to show mercy, even to your enemies, then you do so out of love for them.

  Of course, I'm speaking from the pov that everyone loves Christ. But right now, this is not the case.

  Even so, I don't think in those terms. I love Christ because I love Christ - because He loved us, because He taught and showed mercy, forgave even his enemies, harmed no one. I simply trust that doing as He taught is the right thing to do... and leave the saving of all things to Him. I just try to do my part. Anything else can get kind of overwhelming.

  Please know that when I say "Save the Earth" I mean for happy

  habitation, I don't mean it might crack in two, for goodness sake.

  I thought you meant things like pollution, man-made disasters and poisons, destruction of rainforests, animals dying out, etc.

  So when you say happy habitation, do you mean a healthy planet with people living in harmony with nature?

  Peace,

  Tammy
• 

  N.drew

  It is very nice to hear you again Tammy. In my year of

  searching, you are my favorite poster. I was on Blble Discussion Forum

  but there were several there who were inculcated with watchtower dogma.

  I couldn't stand it, so I asked to be removed. And I'm a "troll", I guess.

  Not on purpose, though. They won't let me even access it anymore.

  I have to go to the library if I might want to read it.

  I believe we are made in God's image. JWs teach the four main attributes

  of Jehovah are Love Justice Wisdom Power.

  There was one poster on Bible Forum who had a better interpretation

  of which is which animal representation. It was very good.

  My hope is that we are indeed images of the Creator, that we

  have the noesis to achieve a balance of the attributes of God.

  Religion is the enemy because it says if you are "good" you get

  balanced for free. Or even, it is not for now, it is for the after life.

  If and when the attributes of God are mature and in balance, then

  we become as Jesus was, when he was a man.

  John 17:3 to me means understanding God's attributes and putting

  them on. To take up one's torture stake and follow Jesus means

  no matter what, keep going toward the end of the goal never fearing

  what might come (for Jesus it was a torture stake). I do not believe

  Governing Body interpretation of the Vision Ezekiel 10:14. but I believe

  as a person keeps considering the scriptures, he becomes more

  aware of God's superlative ideal. I do not recommend throwing out

  the baby with the bath water. Many at this forum have spent thousands

  of hours reading scriptures. You all know most of them, may I please suggest

  that you get to know them.

  Earth question, yes, I believe it is possilbe for the least of human

  kind to find a comfortable place and happy existance on Earth.

  I hear you'll groaning-not! I guess you might call me a "bleeding heart",

  but it is not what you think, I suppose....

  For everone it is different, but good.

  Thank you Tammy.
• 

  N.drew

  Dear Tammy, not oops, I think you did not answer "why" only "how" (in spirit)

  I asked for what purpose do you believe it is for, that the spirit dwells in us?

  What is the reason for Christ's Body, which is, (isn't it?) all them who have

  accepted the love of the Christ to dwell with us and in us?

  In other words, what do you think the Kingdom of God is for?

  What is our part in it? OK, I realize you can not speak for my part and

  The Secret Secret should probably remain as is, so shall I say;

  do you recognize the grave responsibility of having Christ dwell with you?
• 

  tec

  Why, hmmm?

  The purpose, I think, is for us. For our comfort and for our peace and for our love. Because they love us. And because they love us, they want us to know these things, so that we might LIVE, as we were meant to live.

  If you're asking for long-term purpose, then as I said, I mostly deal with the now. Revelations stands out for me though, to answer your question - no more mourning, or death, or suffering.

  Our part in the Kingdom of God is to love God, Christ, and others. Everything else will work itself out, because I think every other good thing stems from love.

  The Secret Secret should probably remain as is, so shall I say;

  do you recognize the grave responsibility of having Christ dwell with you?

  As to these, I'm not sure what you mean.

  Peace,

  Tammy
• 

  LongHairGal

  Terry:

  I also think the concept of a creator who constantly tests mankind is rather cruel. However, maybe he feels that since we are intelligent beings we have to "prove" that we make right choices(?) (I don't know, I am just guessing.) Even though I don't like it one bit, I have no choice to accept it because he is the creator. However, what I DO have a problem with is if a person or group thinks they are going to "test" me. The witnesses always had that stupid statement: "half of the people are here to test the other half". I always asked myself: who the hell does anybody think they are to PRESUME to test another person???

  Maybe an employer wants to test his employees to see if they are capable or not but since he is paying them that is his right. But, these idiots in the religion were not my master OR my employer. I never accepted such a role. I suppose this is where my ego came into it because I had no tolerance for this kind of arrogance and anybody who presumed to set themselves up over other humans. Then they failed as far as I am concerned.