by losthobbit 38 Replies latest jw experiences
I've had many conversations with religious people and am always surprised that I am never able to get anyone to put their programmed beliefs aside and process the logic that proves how unreasonable their doctrines are.
So, I'm wondering, have you ever successfully persuaded someone to change their mind about something that they had been brainwashed with, and if so, how did you do it?
Thanks in advance
The Jws got me for a year until i came to my senses. Ask them!!
Bear in mind i was on drugs, rehab, drinking excessivly, self harming, suicidal and depressed.
And arrested several times. it was a mad moment of my life, at my lowest.
Prey on those who are weak and low, then youll get them to change their mind.
Oh yeah, and locked up in a nuthouse.
And sectioned.
And beaten.
If I have, they haven't had what it takes to admit it to me.
My lot have done so much damage that they would have to grow some really big cajones to admit to their mistakes to themselves, let alone to their families, friends and victims.
I don't try. This is a discussion and debate forum. We discuss and debate and argue over doctrine and belief.
But in my everyday encounters, when someone says they believe in the virgin birth or that God talks to them, they are not asking for opinions or setting themself up to debate/defend their beliefs. I don't try to persuade them. So, I just say how I am a "rationalist," accepting nothing except what evidence leads to.
I have been tempted to encounter Mormons, but I really don't have the energy to follow through on that. I have been eating with coworkers who had to follow a diet during the season of Lent and have lightly questioned it or asked a Jew about pork. They, typically, just know it's the rules but don't know why that is so.
Usually, people have already made a mental decision, come here and find out they are not the only one, they get confirmation.
Yes.
The key to persuasion - in my small world of experience -is emotion. When someone is emotional they are ready neurologically to alter their mind.
When I wish to persuade someone ( face to face ) I try to spend time finding out what makes them tick. For some it is fear, others it is novelty, some like logical ideas but almost all respond to personal validation, non- judgemental empathy ( or sympathy if their is no common experience) and intensity.
As long as you can sidestep them associating your words or ideas with any flight or fight response you will be very persuasive.
So to get a hard core JW to contemplate a different idea you'd likely fail immediately with questions about the GB or 1914 but you'd get really far with discussions about yearning to be more moral / do more for Jehovah / show more love for family / get a clearer understanding etc. Once you are discussing a non threatening desire ( with a bit of passion) you can then share a deep 'fear' like - 'sometimes I worry that I'm too harsh on the local elders when I expect them to act spirit inspired all the time when sometimes they just make human mistakes and I'm certainly a very imperfect example myself. I just wish it was sometimes easier to see what J. was directing when he allowed <insert situation> to happen. '
Seeds planted (Elders not always spirit directed and sometimes J. allows uninspired stuff to happen.)
Thanks Qcmbr :)
Since I'm currently high on coffee, my mind is in an altered state and I just came up with an idea for persuasion... I wonder if it would work...
Basically, if you found yourself in a situation with two rational people and one irrational person, the two rational people could have a conversation in which they regard the irrational person's suggestions as just silly, using peer pressure to encourage rational thinking.
An example could simply be two rational people discussing evolution, or the age of the Earth, or the time light takes to travel to the stars. In such a conversation a young-Earth theorist could be made to feel very stupid.
I'm just putting my thoughts out there... haven't really thought this through.
Qcmbr has just explained how my partner got hooked. She cried and wanted to know why this world is so hard at times,...ever since witnessing this I have seen before my eyes a massive change in my wife, she is dependant on spiritual food. I said it would poison her but she doesn't listen to be. I don't think she has any emotion for me now and only LOVES Jehovah...
the two rational people could have a conversation in which they regard the irrational person's suggestions as just silly
This, imo, is hindering you from even having a religious person listen to you. You have already placed all the religious into the category of irrational, and you, yourself, into the category of rational. What makes you know anything more or better than anyone else - religious or otherwise? Why should anyone listen to you?
Please don't read those as accusatory questions. That is not how I intend for them to be. They're just questions.
Peace,
Tammy
