Have you ever successfully persuaded anyone? (page 3)

AGuest

a man suggested to me that I read a free online book, called "Software for your brain".

But you don't indicate that this man... or any who responded to your questions... regarded you as "silly"... or made you feel "very stupid," dear Lost (peace to you!). Yet, most (if not all) of THEM probably considered themselves to "rational" (as you apparently consider yourself). Personally, I don't get why any would WANT to regard others as silly, just because they don't [yet] see/perceive/view/rationalize as you do... and I get even less why one would want to make another feel stupid (not that that won't inadvertently occur, but surely not purposefully?).

See, I would much rather walk in utter blindness... than to run with those who have such contempt and disdain for others... simply because of what they BELIEVE. I tend to save such for people I believe truly believe ARE silly and stupid. Like pedophiles... and child/women abusers/human traffickers/cold blooded murderers, etc. (who I don't judge, but DO believe to be silly and stupid).

I think that if you re-read your position, as initially stated, dear Lost... you might find a little "essence of reformed whore" in there. Virtually every one who comes HERE (to JWN), including your dear self... apparently was/will be "irrational" at some point or another in their lives... and so the whole "but I'm not anymore so it's okay for me to call/make those who still are silly/feel stupid" direction reeks of the very things such "rational" ones always claim to be decrying: hypocrisy...

C'mon, dear one: folks who don't "get" what you get (right now or ever) aren't necessarily silly or stupid, at least, not any more than you and I once were...

Again, peace to you!

SA, who isn't as diplomatic as dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!), sorry...

P.S. And, yes, I have help persuade several as to the folly of religion... and falsity... of religion. Simply by showing them the truth ABOUT religion, as that truth was told and shown to ME, by my Lord, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH. Sorry, but you asked...

tec

SA, who isn't as diplomatic as dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!), sorry...

*chuckles*

Love and peace back to you.

There ARE times when I wish I would just call a spade a spade. And there are (some) times (lately) when I do just that. Other times I just try and give people the benefit of the doubt... hoping perhaps that they just didn't realize how bad what they said, actually sounds, lol!

Peace,

Tammy

AGuest

I just try and give people the benefit of the doubt...

Yes, and I bow to you for being able to always do that, my dear, dear sister! LOLOLOL! I do try, but sometimes... well, thank gawd for that "We're all imperfect" excuse, eh? LOLOLOL!

Peace, chile!

SA, on her own...

losthobbit

Thanks for your thoughts, Tammy :)

tec

I have a question for you, LH. What is your purpose in your attempts to persuade someone to change their mind? Just curious WHY you're trying to get them to change their mind.

Peace,

Tammy

THE GLADIATOR

How many psychotherapists does it take to change a light bulb?

Only one. But the light bulb has got to really want to change!

losthobbit

Thanks for the question, Tammy:

What is your purpose in your attempts to persuade someone to change their mind?

There are two groups of reasons... one is personal, and the other is idealistic.

My personal reasons:

- I hate lies

- My mother cries every time I talk to her about religion, because she thinks I am going to hell. I also think she loves Jesus more than she loves my dad. I feel like I can't really talk to her about anything that matters, because the only thing that matters to her is Jesus.

- My wife also cried when I explained to her that I am no longer a Christian. She too, wants me to end up in heaven with her.

- When I was a Christian I struggled whenever I prayed, because I hated the idea that my friends and family would end up in hell. I took extreme measures to try and help people to learn about Jesus, because I didn't want them to end up in hell. I don't want my friends to have the same burden.

- I'm too scared to even tell anyone else in my family that I am no longer religious. They knew me when I was religious, and they won't understand.

My idealistic reasons:

- I want the world to be united, not divided by religious grouping.

- I love this planet, and the people on it. I want people to focus on real solutions to the world's problems, not believe that there's some god out there who's allowing wars, global warming and starvation for a good reason and who will fix all the problems in his own time (or that he'll destroy the planet anyway).

- You can probably guess a few reasons why I would want to persuade JW's that they're learning lies.

losthobbit

AGuest... thanks for your comments.

I realize that what I said may not have been very tactful. Sometimes out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. I could guess that most athiests would consider themselves rational and religious people irrational, but never admit it out loud.

It's a bit like people who worship a god they believe is going to send me to hell, but they will never admit to my face that they think I should burn forever.

Perhaps I should explain something about rational, or logical thinking... what you need to understand are tried and tested things like the scientific method and Mathematics. There is a fixed process to rational thought. Irrational thinking comes about when these processes are not adhered to. Rational thinking is like building a wall. You start with the foundational bricks, simple pieces of undisputed knowledge, and build onto those. If any brick in the wall is disproved, everything above it falls down.

Irrational thinking is more like spagetti.

I'll summarize what it says on Wikipedia about the scientific method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method):

Define a question
Gather information and resources (observe)
Form an explanatory hypothesis
Perform an experiment and collect data, testing the hypothesis
Analyze the data
Interpret the data and draw conclusions that serve as a starting point for new hypothesis
Publish results
Retest (frequently done by other scientists)

Consider applying this to your religion: Form hypothesis, try to disprove them, try to get your friends to disprove them. Once you have something solid that no-one's able to disprove, you can lay the brick, and use it as a foundation for the next brick. Your goal is to try to get the wall to fall down.

The scientific method is used to build cars, planes, medicine, etc.

Homeopathic medicine is something which has not passed the scientific method. For this reason it's called "alternative medicine", or in other words, "a substance that does nothing."

Here's a simple test for a religion... I'll use the scientific method, and put petrol in my car. Someone else can empty their fuel tank and pray... and we'll see who finishes the race first. There was a story in the bible where the prophet Elijah challenges the prophets of Baal to light the altar and Elijah wins. Strange that no-one can get the same results these days.

tec

Lost Hobbit:

Thanks for answering. From your answer, however, I gather that it is not faith, Christ or God that you have a problem with. It is the falsehoods that religion has perpetuated about them. I have a problem with those as well, and I also hate lies - especially those lies that turn people away from Christ and God. Not becuase I fear for their 'immortal soul burning in hell for all eternity'... (that is a lie that defies the nature of Christ, God, and love... and this lie serves no purpose but to instil fear in people who believe it, and to turn away those who know its wrong but believe it to be the truth as to what Christ and God are supposed to be. This of itself doesn't make them bad people; just misled).

So I hate the lies because they hinder people from knowing Christ and God, and finding peace in them. People who might otherwise have embraced Christ and God, had they known them. And when a person has peace, they also tend to spread it to others as well (which kind of touches on your idealistic reasons)

Faith, Christ and God, however, do not hinder solutions to real problems, or peace, or unification... religion can hinder this, yes, with their misconceptions and falsehoods... but so can intolerance (which comes in many more forms than religion), bias, arrogance, selfishness, politics, greed, lust for power, etc. Its what's inside a person that stops them from being at peace with others.

I think you will not find your world unification, and peace, by discrediting and/or ridding the world of all religion. (not talking about faith here; just religion) People will just find another banner under which to continue in their ways of war, intolerance, superiority, fears, etc. People act on what is within them. But I do think you (and others who believe as you do) are going to get what you want one day - concerning the end of religion at least. I just don't believe the results are going to be what you all think they should be - mostly because I think religion is merely a banner, and not the root.

Speaking personally, I need Christ and His help to be at peace. To forgive, to show mercy, to love friends and enemies, to show patience and forebearance against those who do me wrong. That is what HE does for me. I trust in His mercy, his forgiveness, and his promises. Christ is the Truth of God. Not religion.

Peace to you,

Tammy

J. Hofer

kind of. you can't do it in one discussion. it takes months, maybe years. but i never tried to persuade, i only speak my mind. what the other one ends up with with the info i provide, is their cup of tea.

that said, i helped quite a few people to start to think for themselves. that's all i wanted. they don't necessarily agree with me on everything, but why should they.

Have you ever successfully persuaded anyone?

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