No longer associated with this group

by yeldell2 34 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  larc

  Gozz,

  I know JAVA very well. I was at his house a weekend ago. So I can tell you that he is a good, well meaning individual. At some point we all react to things that are said that really bother us. I did that with Waiting and Logical. We made up and got over it. We are pretty strong people here and sometimes things hit us the wrong way, so don't be upset with JAVA because he was unusualy outspoken. Now Gozz after all that is said and done, would you please explain to me why they should not be called old farts. Please defend them if you can.
• 

  Pathofthorns

  I'll go out on a limb and help Gozz out.

  To me calling someone an "old fart" is a similar "cheap shot" in an argument when someone might call someone else a name based on where they came from or what colour of skin they have.

  Someone might be old, they may come from a certain country, they may have a certain colour of skin, they may be over/underweight, but what really does that have with the subjects being discussed?

  It is the crimes of these men that need to be exposed in a calm and sensible and well supported manner. That they are "old farts" really is beside the point.

  But I do appreciate that such is the style of some of the posters here, and when such comments are well-placed and used sparingly they can provide a bit of humour to this place.

  On the other hand, used too often, this place loses its positive feel and simply becomes an h20 discussion board with a harsh WTS trashing tone to it. It is neither effective nor productive and I don't believe it makes anyone feel good.

  My 2 cents,

  Path
• 

  larc

  Path,

  I'll give you that. We do have to be careful and not be imflametory (sp?), otherwise we hurt our own purpose. I have said things I shouldn't have, but fortunately, it worked out OK. JAVA had a moment, and maybe he shouldn't have used that term. However, I will point out that the GB has been held to inspection on a number of issues and found wanting. I guess that's a nicer way to put it, but when it all translates into real human suffering, sometimes people call it the way they see it. Perhaps it is crass to use that kind of language, but what their system has done to the lives individuals is far beyond crass. I don't mind the use of such a term, but I worry if what we say will turn someone in the wrong direction. However, in this very precarious world we share, we are never sure just what is the right or wrong thing to say.
  We just do the best we know how.
• 

  larc

  Path,

  I have never been to H2O, but there where two messages sent here that I found to be highly offensive. I know there are good things sent here too. but like you, Path, I don't want to see the dark side over here.
• 

  ianao

  Hello all.

  I think that JAVA was just venting some anger. I know I get frustrated when I am talking to a JW that is just absoloutely certain that I am demon infested. I think JAVA really wanted to say what he said to the people back in Brooklyn (regarding "old farts"). I know I get frustrated, knowing what I know, whenever I hear a JW talk of a man made organization as if it were God.

  -ianao
• 

  Gozz

  Thanks Path and Larc.

  Y'see, many faithful and conscientious JWs wanting to know more about the Organization are visiting sites on the Net. I had personally told a few friends about Obed's site. It was a good place to engage in meaningful discussions. The site is now dead, and many are flocking to others. Though seekers of truth, many such JWs will not tolerate using inflammatory words about Brooklyn - in fact, I think none of us should; if they are wrong then we do not want to be like them.

  Now, a motive for many who post here is to help others begin to think freely, not necessarily to stop associating with JWs, but to let them out of the bondage of 'works' and rather unscriptural teachings. They may still wish to remain JWs. Showing respect for them will be a way to show love, that we do not disapprove of what their decisions are, that they have a right to such. But that we also have a right to enlighten.

  JAVA, I understand that's not your way, so please do take all in good faith. I have said a few annoying things before myself, after coming to a realization of what was really going on; sometimes, anger and annoyance and a discomfitting sense of betrayal grab me then I go over the edge...It'll be good to keep everything within limits, so that some would not be distracted from the real issues at hand.
• 

  Pathofthorns

  I realize the frustration, and I think we all have our angry moments and can excuse alot of things because of that. In all honesty the comments don't terribly offend me, its just that I'd hate to see the over-all tone of this place slide in that direction.

  What bothered me more was the sendoff many decided to give Patricia in her "i'm leaving" thread. It's not hard to see that this person has serious emotional problems, and while she did say things that were out of line, many decided to respond just as badly back to her.

  Personally, I would have rather seen people show some restraint and give her a kind send off, instead of taking the oportunity to gang up on her and give her the boots. This I believe sends an even stronger message to such ones. It shows we'd rather help people than hurt them, even when they are unkind to us.

  Path
• 

  JAVA

  Gozz & others:

  JAVA, I understand that's not your way, so please do take all in good faith. . . . It'll be good to keep everything within limits, so that some would not be distracted from the real issues at hand.

  Good points, and I appreciate your thoughts on the topic. I'm not interested in turning this db into name calling or seeing who can trade the best/worst insults. I've been on groups that do that, and that's not what I'm interested in either. However (leave it to me to always insert a "however"), as former Witnesses we do not need to take insults and/or threats (and that's what we got) because we are not members of the Tower's club. I'm sorry my description (i.e., farts) of the Tower's leadership offended some here, but when someone craps on you, and then says you stink (IMO, that's what happened here) I'm not going to take it. We are not bad/evil/slime/worshipers of Satan because we left the Tower. We do not need to roll over and play dead when someone insults and threatens because of our beliefs. Yeldell2 was treated with respect and kindness, but she didn't return the favor--why; because many posters are no longer JWs. The Society has a history of looking good to outsiders, while treating former members like non-humans. Of course many followers of the Tower mimic the example they see. When that happens I pull the mask off and expose abuse for what it is. Concerning the term that I used:

  I work at a medical college (no, I'm not a doctor) and want to share my understanding of the word "fart." We call fart/s "flatus" in the medical community; I guess it sounds better. Flatus is gas expelled from an orifice; it does not denote color, age or weight. I'll leave now before getting into more trouble.

  JAVA, counting time with the group at the Coffee Shop
• 

  Deacon

  You have learned well Path.....Im proud of you. :-)
• 

  waiting

  hey path,

  Thanks for your thoughts - jokes may not be your strong point (at least 'clean' ones) - but common sense and a form of universal politeness works with you well.

  Perhaps Patricia, being so valiant in her closed mindedness struck a cord of reminder to some of us of how we most assuredly used to be. And the anger at what made us feel/behave as such.

  hey xandit

  Waiting I didn't think you're comments were particularly out of line. A little tight jawed is all.

  That's called proper politeness, xandit. Not necessarily friendly - but can't be wronged for it either. I've been called tight on other parts of the human anatomy, but never the jaw. Still got my big stick. I was not out to offend Patricia, even though she offended others. Like others have brought out, it shouldn't be our intent here, and I hope we can refrain from the aggressiveness shown at H20, even though I like H20 and the vast array of thoughts/arguments/discussions - all within the same day sometimes.

  hey larc,

  I have never been to H2O, but there where two messages sent here that I found to be highly offensive.

  Which two?

  And we did not spar - you were grumpy.

  waiting