I've lurked a long time: JW's produce some of the most paranoid humans

by Unlearn 105 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  mankkeli

  Unlearn - Have you read Crisis of Conscience?, Please do if you have not. It is time to reinforce the conviction that the Watchtower organisation is an extortion racket force. This conviction must be cemented with constant study on religion deception mechanisms, the strategies of secret cult societies and the true history of the WT. There are more than enough materials on these topics, please study and establish your cnvictions. I was an annointed when I left, an elder and a substitute C.O.

  Things were not adding up before I finally call it quit and From my dealings with uber witness high up there, I realized that it was all about artificial and obligatory obedience towards a man-made construct. "Jehovah" is just the brand name used to market the dubious program, things were constantly made up to be used to manipulate innocent people and create fears in them. It is a crime to be a tool to advance such malicious intentions. I had to let go and move on with life.

  Please read, study and keep up the pace of researching the WT's hipocrisy.
• 

  Unlearn

  @ mankkell -
  Yes, read COC a few years ago. I've been out for a while...just keeping the details on the down low for right now.
  
  Very glad you were able to find yourself free of someone elses 'dream', which is all I think dogma of ANY religion really is.
  JW's pride themselves on being different. They take it as a very personal attack when you let them know, very matter-of-factly, that they are just like everyone else.
  No more. No less.
• 

  NewChapter

  Welcome Unlearn! And KEEP rambling---it's fascinating!

  NC
• 

  dontplaceliterature

  Unlearn,

  I wish to give you a most hearty WELCOME! I'm quite envious that you have managed to escape the organization with your wife by your side. I agree with Franklin Massey - Your statement about scooping her up and 'running like hell' was beautiful. She's lucky to have you.

  You mentioned something that has often proven to me that the whole 'system' in the organization for appointments was a big sham. There is no such thing as Holy Spirit's direction in the choosing, promotion, and maintaining of a decent body of elders within the congregation. Guys like you and I are living proof.

  I am an active Ministerial Servant, and have been for 6 years. Until I stumbled onto this site, I was well on my way to "Elder-hood." Because of college education and natural ability, I am skilled at "The Art of Teaching" and am used quite frequently at the local level, on Shepherding Calls, and as an out-going speaker. In fact, I am scheduled out more frequently than some of the Elders on our body. The young people in my congregation are big fans, and I take a close interest in them - and my Elders love this. Our COBE has personally told me they would like to appoint me as an Elder if I "keep up the good work". I think they feel like I am too young, at the moment.

  Now, I say all of that, not to brag, but to prove a point. I have been what most Jehovah's Witnesses would consider an 'apostate' for almost a year. I am one of the most liberal Jehovah's Witnesses I know (YOU CAN IDENTIFY!). I go to rock concerts, listen to 'debased' music when I want to, watch whatever movies I want to, use whatever language I want to, and I barely go in Field Service anymore. I can't remember the last time I prayed and actually thought Jehovah was listening. My wife and I haven't had a family study in at least 18 months. Yet, Jehovah's Holy Spirit hasn't seen fit to expose me. Why is that? BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EXIST!

  I haven't met with my Field Service Group in 3 months, and I am the assistant! Still, last night, I received a request from my Service Group Overseer to join him on a Shepherding Call. He has never once mentioned to me that he's "missed me" or wondered if "everything was okay" as a result of my absence from our FS Group.

  ---

  Now, you also mentioned that your wife had caught you looking at JWN while she was home sick from a meeting. You mentioned the impulse you had to immediately lie to her.

  Yes, it is disgusting that the organization creates that kind of fear and distrust between a husband and wife.

  I myself have been tempted to lie to my wife on more than one occasion about what I was doing online "all that time." However, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I don't delete the Web Browser History, but I am very careful about leaving the browser window open. I never wanted her to be suspicious that I was "cheating" on her or addicted to pornography, etc.

  Wouldn't you know it, while she was up late one night she checked the web browser history and decided to post her feelings under my screen name. You can read what she wrote here (about halfway down the page):

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/216276/4/Todays-Watchtower-Lesson-Really-Bothered-Me

  She agrees with some of the things I have expressed to her. However, she does not think it's worth sacrificing our friends/family inside of the organization to move on with our life. She doesn't feel like there is another lifestyle that would bring her any more happiness than she already has. She doesn't want to leave at the moment.

  The funny thing is, she signed her post as "Committed." So, if she does come around, she's already got a handle on JWN to go by!

  ---

  I wish you the best of luck in your new life, and look forward to reading more of your posts! Again, a hearty welcome. I have really enjoyed reading your thoughts here!
• 

  DaCheech

  wow.

  I remember those CO visits with the elders and Ms's.

  we were always given special instruction, and always told not to share with others the secret shite!

  Many, I believe are coasting.............. they sort of know it's all shiite! but the gestapo will hand you to the wolves!

  so many just do the motions!
• 

  ziddina

  "Some of them are free inside...and if you listen closely, you may even hear it. ...."

  But don't EVER - under ANY circumstances - trust them with ANYTHING that you want to be kept confidential...

  Sorry. Just had to throw my own two-cents in. But I remember that I NEVER told ANY elders anything that I wanted kept "secret".

  They're 'company' men - all of them, until they've disassociated themselves. Until then - DO NOT TRUST THEM.

  Zid
• 

  Unlearn

  @ dontplaceliterature -
  Aenima, eh?
  So gla to hear you're awake and thinking as well. Hang in there with your wife. For me, it was a year long exercise...very planned. I looked for chances to undermine WT propaganda...and the chances present themselves regularly. With my wife, for instance, we would see some moving stoy of the human spirit by some humanitarian...or some self-less act covered on the news by an average-joe do-gooder...and after being moved, I'd immediately say something to her like, 'Wow, isn't the human spirit amazing?'. She'd chime in very affectionately that it is. And then I'd say, 'See, I just find it hard to believe that a person like this is somehow 'wrong' or 'harmful association'...just because they dont believe what I do about god. There are so many good people.'
  And in the moment, she'd get it. And those moments add up.
  I saw what she posted. Her inner struggle is written all over the page. She posts on an apostate site...even alludes to her own insecurities...but then neatly cleans it up at the end by basically saying, 'No one needs to answer this post, I wont respond cause it's a one-time-only thing'.
  But she posted! On an apostate site. That means she can think for herself...and she can rebel against her 'training'. You're fortunate in that aspect: you know the possibility is there. Patiently build on it, man.
  And, in the most respectful way possible, use your child. It's you alls most precious thing. Ask her, hypothetically, if the child needed blood to live, would she say yes or no? Then, remind her about the previous stand the WT had on organ transplants. Have her imagine your baby needing a kidney...or a liver, but living back in the time when WT said this was wrong. Have her imagine the baby dying. Then, have her imagine 2 or 3 years later, the WT flipping and saying that organ transplants now were a 'conscience matter'. Ask her then...how would she feel? Remind her that many faced that. Allude to the promise of your babies future...the great things they'll do and be. Ask her what is your babies life worth?
  If she's all into that Bible, remind her of Abraham and Isaac. Jehovah wouldn't take Abrahams child: had an angel rush into the scene and scream at Abe that the gig was up. Why then would he take yours...if he knew that organ transplants were OK?
  These kind of conversations...very real ones where I tried to bring the WT doctrines home and attach them to real people we knew and cared about...these were very effective. You've got to make her think in REALITY. She's in 'OZ' now.
  
  I really hope you get her out, man. I love you so much. I know how you feel. I know the breathless desperation. Your wildest dreams CAN come true. You and your lady and your baby can be out, in the real world.
  
  @ Ziddina -
  You are goddamn right (excuse my french). Don't trust ANY of them. I'm talking about your parents, your siblings...NONE of them. They are NOT you're true friends. It hurts to realize, but it's true. It would be amazing to say that everyone close to you on the DNA family tree were also the same people you could trust the most. Sadly, that isn't always the case. Those people may only be just that: closest to you on the DNA family tree.
  It's a nasty, mean thing.
• 

  MrDarkKnight

  @Unlearn...Its funny, when I was younger and at Bethel the GB had an "aura". Franz and Schroeder had the scholarly, oracle thing going and the whole arrangement seemed on the real almost supernatural. Sydlik, Gangas and Klein humanized the GB. Jaracz, Barry, Barr kept us focused on the organization,its history, its progress and its goals. Barber provided the comic relief. But as I moved up in Bethel food chain I saw the underbelly of the beast: ass kissing, politics, favoritism, coverups, cronyism and the relentless quest for position and authority by men who would never be highly regarded in the secular world.

  When the old GB started to die off and were replaced by the new GB, the "aura" was suddenly gone. When guys I knew and drank beer with as 19 year old Bethelite started to become lawyers, service departmnet deskmen and writers, I started to sense something was very wrong. if you notice there has not been a publication that provides explanaton of prohesy since the Isaiah book almost 10 years ago. All the books on the prophets in the last ten years focus on MORAL lessons. What happened to interpreting PROPHECY? That power seems to have died with the original GB.

  The guys writing the publications now are guys I grew up with at Bethel. Guys I know. Guys who were just like me. And even though I was adored by the friends as a "loving" elder and highly regarded speaker I knew I was a sham that the whole thing was a sham because no matter what I did in secret, the privileges and the accolades kept on flowing.

  I too feel bad about the people I hurt over years by enforcing the WT laws. When I look at it now its amazing how much of the policy and procedure we used as elders is not based on scripture at all but on organizational policy. I was embarrassed for the many sisters who had to describe in great detail, to three men and in some cases their husbands, the various sexual experiences in order to demonstrate repentance. Husbands guilty of adultery were not required to have their wives present, but wives were required to have their husbands present. That is total bullshit. I feel badly for the abused children whose parents would not heed my rogue advice to call the police because the experts in the Legal department told them not to. Bastards. I knew a family where every child was sexually abused and the parents did nothing because the Legal Department told them to do nothing. The damage to this kids is unbelievable and it pains me even as I write this. I feel badly for the mentally ill who were disfellowshipped when they should have been directed to qualified professional help. I feel badly for the free spirits who had no problem expressing thier views but were branded as rebellious, subversive, the Jezebel influence and eventually as apostate and DF'ed. Mostly I feel badly for my son who is still in with my estranged wife. I want to help him, but if I do they will cut me off from him.

  I toonam now rambling.

  I have only been on the forum for a few months. It is great to have someone in the group who really understands on a very personal level the horror of what we have done to people who deserved better.

  It is a shame. I only hope that I can learn to forgive myself and REALLY move on.
• 

  Berengaria

  Welcome Unlearn! I don't know what you mean by paranoid though. What DO you mean? Who's paranoid???
• 

  exwhyzee

  I am enjoying your posts Unlearn, In your own fresh way you have put into words what some of us have also thought and experienced ourselves. Isn't it freeing to realize you don't have to have a big picture answer for everyting in the universe and that you are not responsible for the whole world and it's salvation?

  Funny thing is, even after having "left" some three years ago, I can still hear a little voice in me, arguing "for" the Watchtower point of view I've known since birth. I had several WT counterpoints for nearly every one of your comments.

  When you talked about your secret doubts about Watchtower teachings and your desire to make a name for yourself in the organization I immediatly thought about their favorite scripture in James 1: 1-27 which talks about being " drawn out and enticed by ones own desire, desire when it becomes fertile, gives birth to sin." You know as well as I do that they would compare your experience to Adam and Eve who put more importance on their own selfish longings than their obedience to God when tempted by Satan and wound up being drawn away from him.

  When you spoke about getting your wife "out" and giving non WT sanctioned advice to those who came to you as an Elder, I immediately thought of the Biblical warnings of "Wolves entering in among you in sheeps clothing not sparing the flock. They would use your experience as a classic example of how dangerous free thinkers are and how careful JW's should be about their association, even within the congregation and stress how important bringing these ones to the attention of the elders would be.

  When you spoke about viewing the Apostate sites in the cover of night as if in secret from Jehovah. They'd say this is because evil loves darkness and avoides the light. They would use your "downfall" as proof that viewing unapproved websites is hazardous to ones spiritual health.

  They would change the title of your thread and replace the word paranoid with cautious or consciencious. "JW's produce some of the most Paranoid cautious and consciencious humans." (cautious as serpents,innocent as doves)

  Have you put all this kind of thinking behind you or do all the old JW reasonings still do battle with your new found frame of mind?

  Although I completly understand how difficult it is to get out of the Org. especially for someone who would be dissapointing many by doing so. There is still a part of me that is angered to think that someone in a position of responsibility would continue advising people on matters he was no longer 100% sure of. My Father died because of advice he got from JW elders. It's terrible to think of all the individuals and families who were devistated by decisions made by Elders etc who were too cowardly or egotistical to step down until they had their issues with the organization resolved. But then again, I realize that we are all in different stages of our own personal development and enlightenment.