There is No Morality Without God (page 2)

PSacramento

Of course there is no "Absolute" morality without god but there is "objective" morality. Human well being - or the well being of conscious beings - is an objective basis for morality. Faith-based morality leads to morality by divine fiat and leaves the faithful trying to defend all sorts of horrors.

The grand "sez who"?

Evolution actually plays a very small part in Harris' thinking on morality.

I didn't mention evolution, I said that morality,a ccording to Harris, has evolved.

Not the samething.

If you can think of a basis for morality that has nothing whatsoever to do with the promotion of the well being of coscious creatures then you have discovered the most boring and irrelevant idea in the universe.

PSacramento

If you can think of a basis for morality that has nothing whatsoever to do with the promotion of the well being of coscious creatures then you have discovered the most boring and irrelevant idea in the universe.

That almost sound like and objective truth even an absolute one !

;)

I am a concsious creater and my well being dictates that I rape and pillage to my heart's content, those that are of a simlar mind join me and we find this behaviour morally correct, who is to say it isn't since it gives us a sense of well being?

Vanderhoven7

Biblical morality of course is based on 3 historical events that establish the value of man.

1. Creation: man being made in God's image

2. Incarnation: God can become man while still retaining His deity.

3. Redemption: Revealing the extent of mans' value. That God/Jesus so loved/valued man that He surrendered to man's inherent evil His very life with a view to absorbing it and reconciling sinners to Himself

Man is therefore of infinite value to God. This is gospel.

cofty

@PS - do you really beleive that a society that operates on the bais of "might is right" has achieved the best possible circumstance for human flourishing? Why do believers pretend to be obtuse when it comes to this subject?

cofty

Of course kidnap, forced marriage (rape) and genocide are absolutely "good" according to god-centred old testament ethics.

PSacramento

@PS - do you really beleive that a society that operates on the bais of "might is right" has achieved the best possible circumstance for human flourishing? Why do believers pretend to be obtuse when it comes to this subject?

Of course not, that is why I don't prescribe the the "well being" theory about morals.

If morality is based on what makes people happy or well adjusted then it is and always will be subjective to the majority that view activity A as such.

If a society views infantcide as for the well being of the society, then there is nothing immoral about it.

cofty

If a society views infantcide as for the well being of the society, then there is nothing immoral about it.

What utter nonsense. If a society thinks that vomiting blood until you pass out is a symptom of good health their opinion is of no value and deserves to be ridiculed. There are such things as facts about morality just as there are facts about health. A society that practices infanticide (like Israel in the OT) has found a way to diminish the well being of conscious creatures. To equate well being with that which makes you smile is absurd.

PSacramento

What utter nonsense. If a society thinks that vomiting blood until you pass out is a symptom of good health their opinion is of no value and deserves to be ridiculed. There are such things as facts about morality just as there are facts about health. A society that practices infanticide (like Israel in the OT) has found a way to diminish the well being of conscious creatures. To equate well being with that which makes you smile is absurd.

So YOUR definition of what constitutes well being is correct but someone else isn't?

How so? What is your "yardstick" and where did it come from?

cofty

What is your yardstick of good health?

If we can't agree on what constitutes good health does that mean we should send all the doctors home and pretend that everbody is somehow equally healthy in their own way?

You are abandoning common sense PS

There is No Morality Without God

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