If your mate remains in the org...

by Silent_Scream 20 Replies latest jw experiences

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  Silent_Scream

  Some here have had the bonus of their mate leaving with them. Unfortunately, my wife is die-hard. Everything in the org makes sense and if it don't, thats fine too. She wants to go to Couples school and/or Bethel badly. I can barely hang on without going crazy, much less "progress" in the org.

  I honestly cringe at the thought of adultery, because I love her to death, and I am aware God is not pleased with it. So, how have some of you coped with a similiar situation?

  I am hurting her and will be hindering her from her goals for LIFE, but my fronting will only be possible for a very short period of time (not according to WT definition). I want her to be happy and be free to do everything she wants.

  Talk about a silent scream.
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  Anony Mous

  Tell her the truth. It will hurt but either she choses you or she choses her faith. You'll know where you stand if you slowly introduce the subject to her. I'm going through the same thing right now, don't give up, you never know, my spouse is showing cracks already because her family and the congregation is pressuring her one way while she wants to go the other way. You don't want a partner that isn't loyal to you, them chosing the organization over you feels the exact same way as them cheating on you with someone else, trust me I've felt them both. If she loves you like you love her, she will overcome. You don't have to do cheat on her to get out of the organization that merely strengthens their perception of people like us. You got to leave the organization with your moral code intact, it will make them angry that you leave not to "sin" but because your conscience tells you to.
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  Silent_Scream

  I am sorry to hear that, AM.

  I have talked to her about it, and she listens and makes excuses for everything and believe everything the org tells her. I just haven't made it known to anyone else. I still go to meetings and we talk about the good points, but when I ask a question or anything that sounds even remotely close to negative about to society, she shows her die hardness, because she thinks she "knows" where it going. Even if its legit, like if the speaker says "the society says" 10 times but opens the Bible once during the entire 30 minutes. She say "Yes I noticed, I know where this is going, drop it".

  At first i thought she was slowly coming around but still in denial stage. I'd ask a question she couldnt answer or show some obvious flaw in a WT, and she would remain silent. Over time, I thought at least a little progress was made.

  Last week I asked if she thought I was mentally diseased or is there something wrong with me. She said no, but I lost faith in the org Jah is using. Then we discussed just one of my main issues and she stated she is going nowhere, but could see us at Bethel or serving somewhere in 5 years. So i realized she is still die hard. Not even a crack as of yet.

  But we are both going in different directions, she knows it and i know it.
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  Silent_Scream

  As far as sinning, thats the only way she can move on and do EVERYTHING she wants to do. You know how that will hinder her unless she has legal and scriptural grounds for divorce. I have no intent nor desire to sin, but I feel like I can take the hit only because I wont have men to answer to.
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  J. Hofer

  that she want's to go to bethel doesn't necessarily mean she's a die hard jw. it sometimes simply means she want's to escape all the trouble and be in a "safe" environment with no disturbing influences.

  committing adultery to let her go wouldn't be a good idea in my opinion. you'll get all the blame, she'll be hurt, you'll be too and whoever you abused for the cause too (unless it was a prostitute and you paid well). and everything you ever said would be worthless. keep in mind that the scriptural divorce rules are man made and enforced by the WTS.

  your first step would be to stop going to the meetings and prepare for the onslaught of elders, family and "friends". you'll need to define beforehand what you want the outcome to be like, if you want to invest some time (say 6-12 months) and fade away theoretically keeping your social life intact, or if you simply want to restart your life coold turkey. either way is tough. good luck.

  i myself gradually stopped attending meetings while my wife kept going. after a while she couldn't handle the guilt trip the "friends" put upon her and stopped attending too. she'd still attend the occasional meeting, maybe 4 times a year max, and the district conventions. we live a pretty normal life now and don't touch the JW topic too much unless i'm drunk.
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  Mad Sweeney

  You can't TELL a cult member anything. Their defenses go up instantly, as you have experienced.

  Let her know that you appreciate her spiritual strength and then ASK HER to HELP YOU. Make it clear in no uncertain terms that you WILL REFUSE to discuss your faith with ANYONE ELSE so she cannot pass the buck on to the elders or anyone else in the congregation - and that you will consider it a betrayal if she breaks your confidentiality EVEN IF her motives are pure. SHE MUST be the one to HELP YOU by EXPLAINING WHY you should have faith that the Watchtower is the Faithful and Discreet Slave. If she refuses, don't get angry, get sad - be hurt that your marriage isn't important enough for her to expend effort at saving you spiritually (it's kind of emotional blackmail but hey - theocratic warfare).

  Arm yourself with info, but never TELL anything. ASK HER to PROVE it to you. When she gives you the Borg talking points, ASK more questions.

  The biggest mistake exiting JWs make is they learn the truth about the organization doctrinally and perhaps scandal-wise, but don't learn the psychology of cult mind control. Not knowing how a cult member is programmed to react you're unprepared to overcome their programming. One would think TRUTH would trump the programming - it doesn't. Not by itself because they're programmed to see ANYthing that doesn't support the Borg 100% as a LIE from Satan's world. Until they can free THEMSELVES from the concept that the Watchtower is "God's Organization" they can't take the other steps necessary in learning everything else that's wrong with the organization.

  Example questions to ask - after you've convinced her to help you rebuild your faith (don't move to the next until the previous one has been fully researched and discussed) :

  1. To put faith in the organization, I need to be sure they are God's organization. When was the Watchtower appointed as the Faithful and Discreet Slave and how did that come about? (if she can't tell you off the top of her head, maybe take a few days for you both to research it and then meet to discuss it further)

  2. What was Jesus looking for during his inspection of the religions of the world? (You can find the answer in God’s Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached, pages 352-353, and also the January 15, 2008 Watchtower - it was what the organization was teaching. Many JWs will give this answer first and then switch it when "opposers" bring up the fact that they taught MANY things that they don't teach anymore - they change it to "the organization was SEARCHING EARNESTLY for TRUTH even though it wasn't 100% clear to them yet, "the light gets brighter." That is NOT official Watchtower doctrine, and even if it is NOW, it wasn't THEN nor for many decades - show her the book and the WT - it's ALL ABOUT what they were teaching.)

  3. What were they teaching in 1918-19? (There was ONE book published by the Borg in 1917 and re-printed as much of the 1918 Watchtower study articles - The Finished Mystery. You can download it at archive.org - it is full of crap that people would be DFd for today, if not sent into a mental health facility.)

  Obviously, the point is to lead her to truth as she does her research to HELP YOU. She is far more likely to believe what she finds than what you tell her.

  I'm not an expert. Not a psychologist. I'm just a guy who has read a lot of experiences - some successful and some unsuccessful. I managed to get out with my wife using the Family Worship Night arrangement, but I never let on any doubts until SHE was doubting - it seems too late for you to try that route.

  (Maybe listen to shows 7 and 8 of Cult Free Radio for encouragement - the mp3s are hosted at www.ex-jw.com - Good Luck )
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  OnTheWayOut

  I have to say that I like what Anony mous said.

  I would never ever cheat on my wife to give her some kind of freedom. If a couple have problems, they should work on the problems (together with or without a therapist) or end the relationship in some official way (involving lawyers) before moving on. I know that's not the way it works in JW world. But stick to that anyway.

  SO if you love her, don't sleep with someone else. Move toward your own personal freedom. Move toward fading or DA'ing or in some way not going to meetings anymore. Tell her you never see yourself at Bethel, besides they are laying off all the time. She will have to make the hard choices because you are still the wonderful person you always were, but not an active JW anymore. If she really wants her freedom, she will choose it.

  Either way, she won't make it to Bethel. She'll be divorced and not able to pioneer right away and snag herself a Bethelite guy. She would have to pioneer and find a pioneer guy and apply to Bethel as a couple later. If they are still hiring, it'll be in Canada or it'll be younger people who never went through divorce.

  I just throw that in so you stop feeling like you stand in her way. You love her enough to let her feel like it's your fault, but she's never really going to go there anyway. And you love her enough to know that she's better off not becoming a Bethelite.

  If you are really saying you want to get the hell out of there, that's understandable. But don't act like it's really a noble thing done for her. She ain't going to Bethel. If you want her to have some JW elder husband and find some non-JW wife, then go see the lawyer.
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  garyneal

  Marking for Mad Sweeney's excellent comments.
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  ABibleStudent

  Hi Silent_Scream and I am sorry for your predicament. It is much better not to talk with your wife about the WTBTS, tell her how much you love her, and plan fun activities that you and she can do and will allow your wife to interact with "Worldly" people, especially if those activities will prevent you from going to meetings. I also recommend that you read Steve Hassan's books (i.e., Combatting Cult Mind Control and Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves) and visiting Steve Hassan's website www.freedomofmind.com.

  If your wife continues to talk about going to Bethel, just tell her how much you love her and that you do not want to cause her and other Bethelites cognitive dissonance. If she persists after saying how much you love her, you can always ask her, "Who does she follow spiritually and who is her mediator with Our Father?" If she says Jesus Christ, than ask her if she is sure about that and show her Watchtower and Awake! articles that say she must follow the GB. Do not say anything negative about the GB or how you feel, let her discover the truth her self. Good-luck!!!

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  ABibleStudent

  P.S. - If you don't like your work now, you should also consider getting a better education in a career field that you love and become more financial secure. If your wife does decide to divorce you, you will be doing something that you love and you will be able to endure the financial hardships of divorce. If you wife asks why you are getting more education, you can tell her that ,as head of the house with the "New Light" changes about the generations, you decided that you must provide for your family encase the the end of time is not for another century.
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  ziddina

  Hello, Silent Scream...

  I am sorry to hear about your situation. The cult blinds peoples' eyes and cripples their free will in order to use them as willing slaves.

  It's not an easy situation to deal with.

  By the way, I am the on-board she-devil , so you may want to filter what I'm about to say.... [That's 'truth in advertising' and all that...]

  As J. Hofer said, don't waste your time committing adultery. I went that route, and could have kicked myself later on for having missed the GOLDEN opportunity to make up some fantastic story to get the elders all "hot'n bothered", while providing me with an escape from the miserable Jehovah's Witness marriage I was trapped in.

  Not to mention that by playing their 'game' instead of walking away clean, I exposed myself to some thoroughly nasty STD's, and lost a lot of self-respect for allowing the Watchtower Corporation to dictate the extremely humiliating method of exiting the marriage...

  Instead of going through all of that, may I suggest?? If you REALLY love this woman, you might be able to slowly draw her out of the cult.

  There are some good examples of how people have successfully done exactly that, both on this website and on FreeMinds, among others.

  As you have already observed, it will take the patience of Job... And a lot of time.

  If you want to go that route, I think that Mad Sweeney's advice hits the bullseye. You'll notice that he was successful in getting his wife out - a success story carries a lot of weight in this sort of situation...

  "I'm just a guy who has read a lot of experiences - some successful and some unsuccessful. I managed to get out with my wife using the Family Worship Night arrangement..."

  I agree with Mad - make sure that she keeps it in the family - no running to the elders [but be prepared for her to do so...] If I were in your shoes, I'd play the "headship" card, too - despite your "momentary lapses of faith", you're still the Head of The House, and she must still obey your directives - that's a heavenly command from Jehovah himself, right??

  Ask her this - if you were physically ill, would she be trying to get out of the marriage so she could follow her own [selfish!!] desire to go to Bethel, while you are suffering? Her place is by your side, through this "trying" time...

  [Playing the victim and using guilt to control people - which is, I think, what she's been using on you - can work both ways!!]

  OnTheWayOut made some good points, too - and along with what he said, I, too, wondered what fantasy land your wife is living in, to think that you and she could obtain a post at Bethel when they're on their way out of town and cutting back - WAY back - on staff...

  His comment,

  "Move toward your own personal freedom. ..."

  can apply in many ways. Now might be the time to take up some area of personal research that you haven't previously had time for, due to meetings and field service. Perhaps focus on a hobby or talent that's been neglected. Do personal research into the origins of the bible, or origins of the Adventist movements, or other aspects of Christianity.

  Hopefully, these new freedoms will assist you in taking your mind off of the situation. As you are able to move away from the Watchtower-directed edicts which previously strait-jacketed you, your greater level of calmness, relaxation,and happiness will hopefully become obvious to your wife.

  And it might make her think... [I see that ABibleStudent posted a lot of good advice, too, while I was working on my post!]

  Zid