How important is or will be the WWC case? too good to be true?

by Aussie Oz 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  DesirousOfChange

  Now that they are probably going to be saying that they are voluntarily complying with the law it may fizzle out, it really depends on the court but the charge is there and must be answered. If the org takes the angle that they don't think it applies to them anyway then it may motivate the courts to clear up the matter through the courts so that a precedent is set.

  I think the real, undiscerned issue that WT has with registering is that it does not want a list of responsible JWs in the hands of the authorities. They are the untimate examples of being paranoid that the list will be used against them in the future.

  DOC
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  Aussie Oz

  Interesting thought about the authorities having a 'list' of elders.

  The Watchtower has flown under the public, media and government eye in western democracies for the better part of 50 or 60 years. Even 1975 only got a bit of ridicule in the media, no real actions that the WT has had to face for longer than any of them can remember in living history.

  Not since the days of rutherford has there been the faintest notion of indicting the leaders of the religion. But it is getting recomended by a magistrate here. Bury it or not, the Watchtower cannot change the fact of what has already transpired. Sure, the GB probably wont get arrested, the faithful and non existant slave might get thrown out, but they have admitted in a court of law, the truth. The fact is that the magistrates court records all sessions, and these can be turned into transcripts. It's a bummer that they are really only available to those involved. But, here is to hoping that when it is all done and dusted, Steven Unthank will release them. The Watchtower cannot have these tapes destroyed. The internet can do wonderful things with that information. I don't think Stevens aim has been to bring the Corp down, the protection of children paramount. But after its over...

  The WT has had to comply with the law. On top of that victory, is the fact that this case has gone all the way from local police to the prime ministers office and back. Senators of government are much more aware of the JWs now than they ever were. The WT/JWs are getting more bad press and bad rap than they have for years both here and oversees. The religion has to answer criminal charges in victoria, not pain in the arse charges.

  I don't think the WT will topple. If those at the top get dumped, they will be replaced. But one person can start a chain of events that changes everything. As more people become aware and intolerant of the JWs, as more government agencies become aware of the hypocrasy and arrogance they too will have less tolerance for them and perhaps the Watchtower will be forced to change a lot of bad policy. Sure, they will spin it to the rank and file, but who knows, maybe the JWs will have to become more mainstream...

  And that will be a whole lot better than them turning into an even tighter mind control cult full of fundy crazies that would like to go out slaughtering apostates!

  Oz
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  Vidqun

  Allow me to add my pound of flesh. I think a dangerous precedent has been set. If they are convicted or even fined, other Western governments may follow suit. Today the protection of children is a top priority for Western governments, and their law enforcement agencies, and this appeals to the voters. As a zealous student of Bible prophecy, I have discovered an interesting fact. The two witnesses in Rev. 11 are killed by the beast "ascending out of the abyss." This points to the League of Nations, and later the UN. However, this is not the beast "ascending out of the sea," as explained by the Revelation Book. In Rev. 13, breath was given to the image of the beast, and so has become a beast in its own right. Later it appears as the scarlet-colored wild beast in Rev. 17. This is the beast that "was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss" (of inactivity). Here the Revelation Book correctly identifies it as the UN. My point is, this has nothing to do with the 1914-18 period. The League only came in existence in 1919. The two witnesses are going to be taken out by the UN. After the NGO Debacle, the UN is well aware of the stance of the Witnesses. So, perhaps when the UN gets teeth (in the near future?) it might act. Other prophecies point to the same thing.
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  JAFO

  @ Vidqun - and that would be a bad thing how?

  The Witnesses are in no way god's representatives on Earth, and have shown themselves willing to get in bed with the UN.. if this profiteering, manipulating, twisted cult is shut down, so much the better.
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  Vidqun

  As a student of, and believer in, prophecy, I do see things in a different light. If God looks down from wherever He is, and He must choose a new people, which group will He choose to represent Him? (Acts 15:14) Going by Jesus' teachings, they are not doing too badly? Imperfect as they are, the group follows strict neutrality, has humility, obedience, obeying the lesser as well as more important things. Think of the Israelites, the fact that their leadership has let them down, doesn't change the above. But that's a different thread altogether. More importantly, if they are God's people, God is going to inspect them (cf. 1 Pet. 4:17). Jesus inspected the temple precinct twice while he was on earth, at the beginning of his ministry, and again at the end. According to the Society, this happened in 1914 (cf. Mal. 3:1-3). Why should it not happen again, before Jehovah passes judgement on the nations?
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  Listener

  Where does Steven Unthank fit into the book of Revelations Vidqun?

  The main problem with your theory is that if the JWs are charged then they would be shown as having neither obedience and humility.
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  JAFO

  Vidqun, I submit that there is NO group of people on this earth that would qualify as "chosen" by the warped, evil god Yahweh, ruler of the "Big Three" Desert Death Cults.. (although the nazis may have come close )

  Enjoy your fantasy..

  Peace/out.
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  Vidqun

  Listener, one must distinguish between the group and the leadership. If you are of the rank and file (of the sheep), one rule applies. If you take the lead (as sheperd), it's a different kettle of fish. More is expected of you, as you "will render an account" (Heb. 13:17). If you refuse a reasonable request from Caesar, you must suffer the consequences, for Caesar carries the sword. The prophecies pointing in a similar direction as Rev. 11 is located in Ezekiel (38 & 39), Daniel (11:41; 12:7), and Zechariah 13:7-14:5.
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  james_woods

  Going by Jesus' teachings, they are not doing too badly? Imperfect as they are, the group follows strict neutrality, has humility, obedience, obeying the lesser as well as more important things.

  Has humility? They arrogantly think that they are the only people on earth who god will not kill within about 70 years at the most.

  Despite the fact that they have prophesied this (wrongly) again and again for at least 120 years now.

  That is not humility - that is blind, bat-shit-crazy hibris.
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  Mad Sweeney

  one must distinguish between the group and the leadership.

  Why? Did Jehovah distinguish between the leadership and the rank and file Jews when he sent Nebuchadnezzar against his people? No. As usual, pretty much everyone was killed. YHWH was big on leaving indiscriminate death in his wake and there is no reason to think he's changed. "I am Jehovah. I have not changed." Sound familiar?