Gubberningbody, I beg to differ: The incessant pressure to "do more" and put-down of any effort to fulfil one's perfectly normal desire for self-affirmation or personal worth through development of one's talents is unique to JWs, and an enormous contributor to one's sense of worthlessness.
4 Suicides I Am Aware Of This Year, Why Elders, COs Are Not Competent To Handle These Matters. (Life Or Death, Your Choice!)
by AvocadoJake 36 Replies latest jw friends
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Quendi
I'll weigh in on Gubberningbody's comment as well. These other religions don't claim that their officers are put in their positions by God Himself through the operations of his holy spirit. There is a tremendous difference between being trained to handle mental health issues and being completely ignorant of all the factors treatment involves. Yes, mental health professionals don't save everyone, but they at least know the best approach to take. Elders know absolutely nothing about how to do this. Add to their ignorance, apathy, indifference, hostility and arrogance and you have a mix that does nobody any good. That stance arises from the belief/doctrine that holy spirit will assist elders in the "shepherding" work. I stand by my assertion that the WTS has a lot of blood on its hands.
Quendi
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Momma-Tossed-Me
I want to speak a little on this topic, for it is a serious issue within the JW ranks.
Empirically, speaking the lower members of a group are always the most stressed as they have the majority above to answer to.
Stress actually kills brain cells over the time the person is marinading in fight or flight hormones due to the physiology of the reaction.
The person in this condition can deteriorate mentally to the point that they would do or say anything to relieve the pain or mental anguish.
The men appointed are under a considerable amount of pressure themselves making them less likely to pick up on any signs they have self educated themselves on if they took that initiative since they are in ecclesiastical position, or a counseler over a group.
So in short this is one of the many ways the Corporate Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses is blood guilty. They kill many in many ways.
MTM
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Judge Dread
According to a recent study published in The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics. Source: Kanita Dervic, Maria A. Oquendo, Michael F. Grunebaum, Steve Ellis, Ainsley K. Burke, and J. John Mann. "Religious Affiliation and Suicide Attempt" (161:2303-2308, December 2004).
Full article online: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/161/12/2303
ABSTRACT:
OBJECTIVE: Few studies have investigated the association between religion and suicide either in terms of Durkheim's social integration hypothesis or the hypothesis of the regulative benefits of religion. The relationship between religion and suicide attempts has received even less attention.
METHOD: Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics.
RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found.
CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients. After other factors were controlled, it was found that greater moral objections to suicide and lower aggression level in religiously affiliated subjects may function as protective factors against suicide attempts. Further study about the influence of religious affiliation on aggressive behavior and how moral objections can reduce the probability of acting on suicidal thoughts may offer new therapeutic strategies in suicide prevention.
Pitzer College sociologist Phil Zuckerman compiled country-by-country survey, polling and census numbers relating to atheism, agnosticism, disbelief in God and people who state they are non-religious or have no religious preference. These data were published in the chapter titled "Atheism: Contemporary Rates and Patterns" in The Cambridge Companion to Atheism, ed. by Michael Martin, Cambridge University Press: Cambridge, UK (2005). In examining various indicators of societal health, Zuckerman concludes about suicide:
Concerning suicide rates, this is the one indicator of societal health in which religious nations fare much better than secular nations. According to the 2003 World Health Organization's report on international male suicides rates (which compared 100 countries), of the top ten nations with the highest male suicide rates, all but one (Sri Lanka) are strongly irreligious nations with high levels of atheism. It is interesting to note, however, that of the top remaining nine nations leading the world in male suicide rates, all are former Soviet/Communist nations, such as Belarus, Ukraine, and Latvia. Of the bottom ten nations with the lowest male suicide rates, all are highly religious nations with statistically insignificant levels of organic atheism.
It is important to keep in mind that atheism and agnosticism have no inherent proscription against suicide, so higher rates of suicide among agnostics and atheists should in no way be considered a failure of these belief systems. Indeed, compassionate tolerance for suicide and euthenasia are widely regarded as hallmarks of many secular societies.
The list of countries with the highest levels of atheism, agnosticism and non-belief in God (see: Largest Atheist Populations, reporting lists by Zuckerman, 2005, and Greeley/Jagodzinski, 1991) strongly correlates with countries that have the most liberal (or "progressive") laws, policies and practices regarding right-to-die, assisted suicide, and euthenasia for infants, the terminally ill, chronic pain sufferers, the handicapped, and depressed individuals. Zuckerman (2005) listed the top countries with the highest levels of atheism and non-religiousness as: Sweden, Vietnam, Denmark, Norway, Japan, Czech Republic, Finland, France, South Korea, Estonia, Germany, Russia, Hungary, Netherlands, Britain and Belgium (highest by level of non-belief, with Sweden being the highest).
A report last updated 1 March 2005 about assisted suicide (Assisted Suicide Laws Around the World, compiled by Derek Humphry, former editor of World Right-to-Die Newsletter) summarizes the situation in these proportionately more atheist/agnostic countries:
...Sweden [ranked #1 on the list of countries with the highest proportion of atheists/agnostics] has no law specifically proscribing assisted suicide...
Norway [ranke #4] has criminal sanctions against assisted suicide by using the charge "accessory to murder"... A retired Norwegian physician, Christian Sandsdalen, was found guilty of wilful murder in 2000. He admitted giving an overdose of morphine to a woman chronically ill after 20 years with MS who begged for his help... Dr. Sandsdalen died at 82 and his funeral was packed with Norway's dignitaries, which is consistent with the support always given by intellectuals to euthanasia.
Finland [ranked #7] has nothing in its criminal code about assisted suicide. Sometimes an assister will inform the law enforcement authorities of him or her of having aided someone in dying, and provided the action was justified, nothing more happens. Mostly it takes place among friends...
Germany [ranked #11] has had no penalty for either suicide or assisted suicide since 1751...
France [ranked #8] does not have a specific law banning assisted suicide, but such a case could be prosecuted under 223-6 of the Penal Code for failure to assist a person in danger. Convictions are rare and punishments minor...
Denmark [ranked #3] has no specific law banning assisted suicide...
In England and Wales [ranked #15] there is a possibility of up to 14 years imprisonment for anybody assisting a suicide. Oddly, suicide itself is not a crime, having been decriminalized in 1961. Thus it is a crime to assist in a non-crime. In Britain, no case may be brought without the permission of the Director of Public Prosecutions in London, which rules out hasty, local police prosecutions... there have been eight Bills or Amendments introduced into Parliament between 1936-2003, all trying to modify the law to allow careful, hastened death. None has succeeded, but the Joffe Bill currently before Parliament is getting more serious consideration than any similar measure...
Hungary [ranked #13] has one of the highest suicide rates in the world... Assistance in suicide or attempted suicide is punishable by up to five years imprisonment. Euthanasia practiced by physicians was ruled as illegal by Hungary's Constitutional Court (April 2003), eliciting this stinging comment from the journal Magyar Hirlap: "Has this theoretically hugely respectable body failed even to recognize that we should make legal what has become practice in everyday life."
...in Estonia [ranked #10]... lawmakers say that as suicide is not punishable the assistance in suicide is also not punishable.
The only four places that today openly and legally, authorize active assistance in dying of patients, are:
1. Oregon [the U.S. state with the highest proportion of self-described non-religious residents] (since l997, physician-assisted suicide only);
2. Switzerland [ranked #23] (1941, physician and non-physician assisted suicide only);
3. Belgium [ranked #16] (2002, permits 'euthanasia' but does not define the method;
4. Netherlands [ranked #14] (voluntary euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide lawful since April 2002 but permitted by the courts since l984)...Japan [ranked #5] has medical voluntary euthanasia approved by a high court in l962 in the Yamagouchi case, but instances are extremely rare... The Japan Society for Dying with Dignity is the largest right-to-die group in the world with more than 100,000 paid up members
[See the article for many more details.]
Active religious cultures exhibit lower levels of suicide
In 2002 the American Journal of Epidemiology published a study by Dr. Sterling C. Hilton showing that active Latter-day Saints are 7 times less likely to commit suicide than their surrounding peer population. (See: "High Religious Commitment Linked to Less Suicide", describing the study from American Journal of Epidemiology).
In various broad-based sociological studies, Latter-day Saints consistently exhibit high levels of religiosity and committment to behavior in accordance with religious teachings, relative to the general population, levels higher than seen in nearly all other sizable religious groups. The Hilton study showed not only that membership in a highly religious culture is linked to lower levels of suicide, but also that higher levels of participation within a specific religious group are linked to lower levels of suicide.
It is important to keep in mind that suicide is not actively encouraged by any major group or belief system, whether atheist, agnostic or highly religious. Even in nonreligious nations and belief systems in which suicide is considered a moral and viable option, it is an abberation.
Although there is a strong statistically significant correlation linking religious belief and practice to lower levels of suicide, it is not reasonable to use this correlation to broadly generalize about the merits of any particular belief system. Simply put, most people eat food, have families, work or go to school. But only a tiny fraction of any population ever commits suicide. Suicide is a statistical anomaly and is not a generally applicable demographic measure.
Social scientists believe that non-belief in God or lack of religiosity are not causitive factors leading to suicide. Rather, it is likely that religious belief that suicide is wrong is a strong deterrent factor that prevents otherwise suicide-prone individuals from committing suicide.
According to medical research, the factors most predictive of suicide are hopelessness and depression. Clinical depression can be found in all segments of society. The following passage is from: "Cognitive therapy for the suicidal patient: A case study" in Perspectives in Psychiatric Care, Oct-Dec 1998, by Christine E. Reilly:
Suicide is responsible for more than 31,000 deaths a year, making it the ninth leading cause of death in America (Anderson, Kochanek, & Murphy, 1997). The single most predictive risk factor for a completed suicide is a psychiatric diagnosis. As in the case of depression and panic disorder, cognitive therapy research has made a significant contribution toward understanding the variables in suicide. A task force of the National Institute of Mental Health Center for Studies of Suicide Prevention developed a tripartite classification system in 1973 to describe suicidal behavior-suicide ideation, suicide attempt, and completed suicide (Beck et al., 1973)...
Many factors play a role in suicidal ideation and behavior. Hopelessness frequently has been reported to be the most critical psychological variable predictive of suicidal ideation and behavior. Degree of hopelessness, along with a negative self-concept (a variable predictive of suicide independent of hopelessness), compose two of the three components of Beck's negative cognitive triad found operating in depressed individuals (Beck, Steer, Epstein, & Brown, 1990).
Certainly Latter-day Saint missionaries never knock on doors with a message, "Hello. If you join our Church you'll be less likely to kill yourself." Likewise, it is unlikely that any atheists and agnostics will modify their beliefs and religious practices simply because of one demographic factor relating to a statstical group they happen to belong to. If your "discussion" of the relative merits of your belief system devolves into pointing out the suicide rate within a specific population, then you have already lost the argument, because you have abandoned substantitive dialogue in favor of an appeal to tangential sensationalism.
Please send suggestions, corrections, etc. to [email protected].
Web page created 26 April 2005. Last modified 19 April 2007.JDW
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Momma-Tossed-Me
How about with Cults, Judge Dread?
MTM
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00DAD
Judge Dread posted: According to a circa 2004 study published in The American Journal of Psychiatry religious affiliation is associated with significantly lower levels of suicide compared to religiously unaffiliated people, atheists and agnostics.
However, the relevant studies done on JWs indicate significantly higher incidences of depression and mental illness than among the general population.
- Research Studies on the Mental Health of Jehovah's Witnesses
- Here's a dated, but none-the-less interesting video on the subject:
According to medical research, the factors most predictive of suicide are hopelessness and depression. Both sadly and ironically, many JWs are overcome with both hopelessness and despair which often lead to depression! So apparently it's better for your health to be a member of almost any other mainstream religion than it is to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
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Judge Dread
How about with Cults, Judge Dread?
MTM
The Mormons are not a cult?
Since when?
Since "when" you want them "not" to be?
JDW
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Judge Dread
Don't forget, Japan and South Korea are full of J.W.'s also.
JDW
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gubberningbody
I do agree that unreasonable pressure and the unrelenting cognitive dissonance required by a believing JW could be a contributing factor in suicide rates among JW's, however once again, it's difficult without more data to know the overall impact on this group.
I became a JW at a time and a place when the experience was just what I needed. I found a family, I found structure, I found people who weren't faking themselves or others and many who genuinely appreciated my unique qualities. I found an opportunity to learn how to work with diverse groups of people inside and outside the congregation.
Too bad the "Truth" wasn't the "Truth".
It's a painful experience to realize once again that there is no Santa Claus.
I say these things not to defend the organization, but to highlight what people have found in these kinds of religions and why these things have been at times helpful and at other times hurtful.
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AvocadoJake
To "MammaTosseeMe" there is a National Geographic show on "Stress" with the leading doctors dealing with the subject hierarchial structures, and how they are able to remain relatively stress free, while the drones are battling rage, stress, health issues and other pains brought by the Group heads.
For all who want to know why a elder on top can have no stress, while the average joe and jane publisher or servant can have ulcers, added body fat and stress beyond belief. Please watch the movie on Netflix "Stress" by National Geographic, it explains beyond belief, why the upper echelon live so long, while we don't.
In grad school, I took a class dealing with Afred Adler's theories of human psychology and his methods and theories of family psy. Look up the the origin of cogintize dissoannce and the UFO cult and what took place with the "End of the World" did not come. The reasearcher who coined the term Cog Dis, provided some of the most incredible research on this topic and will help explain, how easy it is for failed expectations to be blown off by the Group itself. Sorry about the typing and spelling problems, I am trying to type from my phone, so please forgive me. Peace to you, my internet brothers and sisters. have you run!